BMW Brake pads - Daylight robbery
24 March 2009 - 9:05am
A week ago I replaced my front tire on my BMW R1100S and noticed that I needed new brake pads.
Since this is quite an easy bit of maintenance I bounced off to BMW to buy some brake pads and planned on doing the job myself.
BMW quoted me [b]R1460.00[/b] for the 4 BMW Brembo pads alone (excluding fitment).
BREMBOSince this is almost the price of a major service I decided to take my business elsewhere.
[b]Tracmac[/b] offered me 4 SBS brakepads for a mere [b]R550.00[/b]. Needless to say I bought them and will fit them this weekend.
My real reason for posting is to ask the question: [b]"What the hell makes BMW brake pads better?"[/b]
I have done some searching on the internet and have been unable to find any direct comparisons between BMW branded Brembo brake pads and SBS brake pads. Considering the BMW pads cost 3 times as much as the SBS brakes I would imagine that there is some difference…
Or is this just BMW’s normal "3 times the reasonable price" rule?
I am quite a big BMW fan but I must say that my brand loyalty takes quite a knock every time I walk out of BMW. I know that the BMW brand is almost a fashion statement which is why Ill accept the price of the accessories and bikes but the money that they charge for consumables like brake pads and filters is less than reasonable.
Anyone with more info on brake pad comparisons, comments etc are MORE than welcome
Whew, it’s good to get that off my chest.
Thanks
Nic
BREMBOSince this is almost the price of a major service I decided to take my business elsewhere.
[b]Tracmac[/b] offered me 4 SBS brakepads for a mere [b]R550.00[/b]. Needless to say I bought them and will fit them this weekend.
My real reason for posting is to ask the question: [b]"What the hell makes BMW brake pads better?"[/b]
I have done some searching on the internet and have been unable to find any direct comparisons between BMW branded Brembo brake pads and SBS brake pads. Considering the BMW pads cost 3 times as much as the SBS brakes I would imagine that there is some difference…
Or is this just BMW’s normal "3 times the reasonable price" rule?
I am quite a big BMW fan but I must say that my brand loyalty takes quite a knock every time I walk out of BMW. I know that the BMW brand is almost a fashion statement which is why Ill accept the price of the accessories and bikes but the money that they charge for consumables like brake pads and filters is less than reasonable.
Anyone with more info on brake pad comparisons, comments etc are MORE than welcome
Whew, it’s good to get that off my chest.
Thanks
Nic
24 March 2009 - 9:58am
#1
rekall have a look at Geoff's thread about the service costs on his cars ....
Unfortunately this type of behaviour is NOT limited to BMW motorcycles.
There have also been threads about the costs of oil filters - the "generic" filter is available at a fraction of the price.
So YES I do share your frustration - the choise of my next bike WILL be determined by the "servicability" of the bike (how much can I do myself) ...
BUT, as I said this is also seen with other dealers. A typical air filter costs R40 to R60, try R360 before VAT for a Daihatsu !!!
However, the one reason I do support BMW (as far as reasonable) is that we DO get good service and parts are available. Many other bike brands do NOT offer this type of backup - I know people that have waited months for grey parts, just to get the wrong stuff delivered ....
Will I pay R1500 for brake pads - HELL NO !!
24 March 2009 - 10:00am
#2
Biketique also stocks SBS pads.
RIDE,RACE,PLAY!
I RIDE THEREFORE I AM!
24 March 2009 - 10:24am
#3
Part of being with BMW. Everything costs a fortune. R800.00 for a mirror. R280.00 for a plastic lens cover, the list is endless. R11500.00 for a front wheel rim and that's without the spokes and hub! So best leave the bike in the garage and just admire it from time to time ha ha. Then sell it for spare parts.
24 March 2009 - 10:25am
#4
I just got off the line with Master Parts. I'm looking for Lower Control arm bushes for the front of my 2001 E46 318i BMW (pre-facelift).
For those of you that don't know what this is, they're 4 pieces of rubber, approximately 30mm in Diameter, possibly 50mm long, with teflon inserts where the bolt goes through. Vulcanized of course. (very basic description)
BMW wants over R2500 for these 4 rubber bushes.
Master Parts wants just over R260 a side (around R530 total - VAT incl.)
The labour required is around R900 (Boss Motors) Although I can (and will) do the job myself.
For this "job", BMW wanted to also replace the lower control arms (according to various sources, unless there is accident damage or the tyres are really wearing strange patterns this is unnecessary) - at nearly R4500 each (there are two).
if BMW were to do this job - R11500 before any labour has been added.
if I do it myself - R550 including the rags and cleaning solution I will use.
24 March 2009 - 10:44am
#5
It is hard to please everybody. When BMW chooses a part to put its name behind, part of the pricing includes:
# making sure it is available in the dealer supply chain,
# ensuring the quality is suitable for BMW's brand,
# rebranding (part #, box, labels etc)
# storage costs, and
# exchange rates - given that the parts are probably sourced in Germany and distributed, rather than sourced locally and rebranded locally.
There are some customers who would throw their toys out the cot if a part is not available at the dealer. These guys don't mind what it costs, and they deserve to pay.
For us price-conscious cheapies, shopping around, and buying from non-branded distributors (places like Midas stock many more brands so the overheads are lower per item) is the way to go.
However, we are a different market and have no right to criticise BMW's pricing or operating model (other than to say that it is not for us).
What has surprised me more than once though, it how easy it is to get spares for an older model from the dealer, at very reasonable prices.
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24 March 2009 - 10:46am
#6
Haha. Thanks for the info Freak.
SBS brake pads are not some nameless generic product. They are high quality racing pads.
I do agree that BMW quality and service is nothing short of excellent and the best that I have experienced, but for that price I'd expect nothing less.
The BMW part prices are not just unreasonable but rather laughable.
24 March 2009 - 10:49am
#7
Charles I find it hard to agree with what you are saying.
Many of the parts used are of the same quality - just look at light bulbs for example, which BMW wants R300 for, yet it's the exact bulb I purchased from Midas for R45...
I can understand charging high labour fees where the client "needs it RIGHT NOW".
I can understand if the parts are not available anywhere else and have to be imported.
But many parts don't - and comply with more or less the same standards as far as I have been able to ascertain.
Looking at the BMW branded calipers of my R1200GS, with the fat BREMBO stamp hidden on the inside - forces me to ask the "are we only paying for the name" question.
You can come and personally inspect and test the bushes I buy from Master Parts against the same from BMW if you like - I challenge you to find sufficient cause for the 1000% price escalation.
24 March 2009 - 10:54am
#8
If I go to Tracmac (or Biketique :P ) and ask for some obscure part 9 times out of 10 I have found they have it and at a fraction of the price to BMW. These 'generics' are of equal or sometimes even superior quality to the BMW parts.
Labour fees and bike costs aside, I really think that consumables should be priced more reasonably.
BMW bike owners are loyal and often ride BMW's for a lifetime. Its a pity that I feel like they are trying to fleece me every time I walk into the store.
24 March 2009 - 10:55am
#9
I agree with ShadedGS comments!!
24 March 2009 - 10:57am
#10
As a basic example the brake pads for my bike are used by no less than 10 other BMW models.
The take up very little space during shipping and storage.
There is absolutely no justification for the price...other than the fancy BMW stamp
24 March 2009 - 10:57am
#11
While i agree that BMW are trying to ensure that they provide parts with backup and service their pricing has gone over the top, 4 years ago before buying a bike i did a survey and found BMW to be the cheapest out of Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki and even Yamaha. For example, F650 oil filter, buy it from Eurobike for half the price, exaclty the same thing. Because we like the BMW product we always seem to find ways to justify their pricing, i'm not saying the others are cheaper but BMW has hiked prices by 200% in 2 years, something stinks...
2008 F800GS
2007 F800ST
2005 F650GS(In hospital...)
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24 March 2009 - 11:01am
#12
Complaints aside (for now)
Is there any difference between Brembo brake pads and SBS pads?
Do they use the same brake compounds? Are the Brembo brakes at least a little bit better? Just a little? Surely?
24 March 2009 - 11:03am
#13
at 3 times the price - the Brembo brake pads would have to be 300% better.
Better grip
Better wear
Better Temperature control
Less Wear on the disc.
Those kind of things.
24 March 2009 - 11:07am
#14
I do not agree with your statement that BMW pay for the re-branding of parts Charles. Usually it is one of the conditions that they (BMW) negotiate with the supplier to supply the part in a branded package. I would also assume that because of BMW buying power they should be able to negotiate a better price from the supplier than the average Trac-Mac shop with 3 or 4 outlets. So what must their markup be if buy it for less than the average spares shop and sell it for more than double? I understand that the spares shop also need to buy form a distributor so there is a middle man in the supply chain. The other points you mention is applicable to all parties i.e. storage costs and exchange rates.
24 March 2009 - 11:10am
#15
ShadedGS, you sound like the guy at BMW...Vague and unscientific :D
So does it really boil down to paying 300% for a name?
24 March 2009 - 11:16am
#16
I'm not saying you must buy BMW branded parts, neither am I excusing the pricing. I'm just saying it like it is.
The poor dealer has no say in the matter either - it all gets laid down by head-office. What the dealer workshops will do however, is tell us about the cheaper options, or even supply the cheaper options (especially to those clients they know are price conscious and who are courteous and friendly).
Unfortunately also, those owners under warranty are probably forced to take the BMW parts or risk losing the warranty.
That's where a place like biketique, that provides a separate warranty product, and is able to supply alternative parts of good quality, comes into its own.
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24 March 2009 - 11:19am
#17
That's where a place like biketique, that provides a separate warranty product, and is able to supply alternative parts of good quality, comes into its own.
Couldnt agree more!
What the dealer workshops will do however, is tell us about the cheaper options, or even supply the cheaper options (especially to those clients they know are price conscious and who are courteous and friendly).
I cant say I've ever experienced this at BMW.
24 March 2009 - 11:23am
#18
ShadedGS, you sound like the guy at BMW...Vague and unscientific :D
So does it really boil down to paying 300% for a name?
Take it back take it back! :P
The dealerships I've dealt with have been awesome (for the car) - and I in fact have friends in some of them - the pricing is not theirs to decide - it's a BMW group decision enforced by head-office as Charles says. Just clarification on my part. I'm not marking a specific dealership, or person, but rather the exorbitant cost of spares that should, theoretically, for all intent and purposes be cheaper.
Shoprite checkers pride themselves on their buyer power which allows them better prices which they can then pass on to the consumer - surely BMW should be doing the same (without the cheap chirpy chick in the adverts)...
24 March 2009 - 11:25am
#19
The other points you mention is applicable to all parties i.e. storage costs and exchange rates.
It is likely that a German buyer pays Euro pricing for the product, while an African buyer pays a different exit price from the factory. So local suppliers, although dealing with the exchange rate, enjoy a lower price model than European buyers.
Which means that if a German buys from China, then ships to South Africa, the pricing is higher than a South African buying from China.
Also, storing parts at the BMW Pavillion is more expensive than storing parts in Midas Stikland due to higher rentals etc etc.
The first company I visited for my hearing aid, is a new company owned by German partners. Their bottom-of-the-range product was priced more expensive than the top-of-the-range of the same product from a local hearing aid clinic. They were unable to change the pricing because they operate from Germany.
So I went to the local clinic, and I told the Germans that I would on account of the pricing. There was still nothing they could do price-wise.
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24 March 2009 - 11:30am
#20
Take it back take it back!
I didnt mean it. I promise!
I know its a BMW group decision and I know that its the name of the game but it still stings a bit.
Oh well. Ill just fit my unglamourous generic brake pads this weekend and live with it. If someone asks me "so what brake pads are you using?"
Ill hang my head in shame and reply "Generics, but at least I still have money to fill my bike with petrol"
24 March 2009 - 11:30am
#21
Shaded,old chap, you ought to post in big letters "This is about my BMW motor CAR not bike" before someone wets himself or flies into an uncontrollable rage, as many don't read the full post.:-)
24 March 2009 - 11:45am
#22
As Padlangs mentioned earlier this is not limited to BMW and is not even limited to motorcycles.
This is how the automotive industry operates and most of it is regulated from overseas. Im just feeling it at the moment with my bike.
The smaller non branded outlets have the mandate to price differently and that is why we should support them.
I think a lot of people think that BMW parts are better than the cheaper parts and that certainly is not the case(in a lot of cases).
I was hoping for a more technical comparison of the brakes from someone in the know but doesnt look like there is anyone with that knowledge.
I know Brembo brakes are used in a lot of top superbikes and would imagine that they differ somehow. I noticed that the Brembo pads had a gold compound whereas the SBS pads have a grey compound.
Food colouring or is it a secret additive?
24 March 2009 - 12:07pm
#23
Well, I need to replace the back caliper on Mr.Badger. BMW price = R4.5k - the brakes on this model are not even branded BMW - they are 'Brembo' and marked as such.
So where would I get them if not from Atlantic Motorrad?
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24 March 2009 - 12:08pm
#24
Secret Additive - crushed corn flakes.
Mr Terry - if people are going to fly into a rage because they don't read the post - I'm sorry. If you can't read by now, not much I can do about it :P
24 March 2009 - 12:24pm
#25
Charles, on my 2006 1200GS the calipers are also Brembo with no BMW stamp or logo in sight. I would also like to know who else stock Brembo pads except BMW. I know some other bike brands like KTM & Triumph also have Brembo brakes as factory standard. Maybe they can be of assistance.
24 March 2009 - 1:05pm
#26
I think we may have a solution for Charles as we have had calipers reconed before.
Shaded phone Rais at Reynolds Autos about your E46 021 715 7114 around R2000.00 incl labour.
(if there is any problem call me).
SBS 742 rear - fits R1100S, R1100GS, R1150R/GS/ADV&RT. K1200S, R1200C, R1200GS 04-07.
R450.00 incl vat.
RIDE,RACE,PLAY!
I RIDE THEREFORE I AM!
24 March 2009 - 1:20pm
#27
Thanks Freak,
But I'm going to do the work myself, I'm not new to working under a bonnet (even though it looks like it and I do call some of the items "thingamajigs").
I've done Control arms, engines, services, cam belts, CV's and a few other tasks - I'm sure just cause it's got a BMW badge doesn't mean it's going to be that much more difficult.
24 March 2009 - 1:25pm
#28
Can I bring my box of hammers and help bro? I can take anything apart.
RIDE,RACE,PLAY!
I RIDE THEREFORE I AM!
24 March 2009 - 1:29pm
#29
Lol,
Sure China, I don't actually think I'm going to use one though.
It's mostly spanner work and then some press work.
A rubber mallet might be used later.
You can wash all the parts before we put them back if you want?
24 March 2009 - 2:13pm
#30
I can wash, when? (up country fetchin bikes this weekend).
RIDE,RACE,PLAY!
I RIDE THEREFORE I AM!
24 March 2009 - 2:35pm
#31
Prolly in the next 3 or so weeks - I'm such a socialite I don't have time to blink at the moment. (don't know how that happened)
24 March 2009 - 2:54pm
#32
Its the way you dress bro, makes you wanted, the way I ride makes me wanted, sorry for hijack.
RIDE,RACE,PLAY!
I RIDE THEREFORE I AM!
25 March 2009 - 12:42pm
#33
Charles, i have a rear caliper (used) from a R1100S which should work on your GS, let me know if you are interested...
2008 F800GS
2007 F800ST
2005 F650GS(In hospital...)
Motorcycle Rider Training
http://www.twowheels.co.za
25 March 2009 - 12:57pm
#34
I broke the bracket on my hand gurad that connects to the handle bars for the 1200, was quoted R680.00 for a bracket..CRAZY!
25 March 2009 - 1:22pm
#35
Hi Max
Yes, I am interested - how much and when and where? I am going to the DS Festival in Clanwilliam this weekend, so maybe early next week?
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25 March 2009 - 1:35pm
#36
Yip next weekend is good, just drop me an email, maxl@iafrica.com
2008 F800GS
2007 F800ST
2005 F650GS(In hospital...)
Motorcycle Rider Training
http://www.twowheels.co.za
25 March 2009 - 7:10pm
#37
Chris Dunn what mirror costs R800?
My quote after a small slip in diesel
MIRROR RIGHT K1200GT R1,421.23
FRONT FAIRING K12GT R5,233.18
RIGHT FAIRING K12GT R5,508.62
RIGHT BELLY PAN R1,972.09
RIGHT PANNIER LID K12GT R3,770.70
25 March 2009 - 7:20pm
#38
The mirror for my 1200GS. Broke it on the Transki trip last year.
31 March 2009 - 8:12am
#39
What the dealer workshops will do however, is tell us about the cheaper options, or even supply the cheaper options (especially to those clients they know are price conscious and who are courteous and friendly).
I ride a 2002 Dakar. It's in good running condition, and whilst I would not take a risk with any 'dodgy' parts, Atlantic Motorrad, when servicing my bike, have given me advice on parts (brake pads in particular) that I can save on by supplying them with the bike at service time.
I can fit/change my own pads, filters, etc - so yes, I have had great money-saving tips from Atlantic WHILST still having my bike serviced, and paying money over to them.
And a courteous/friendly enquiry does produce results...!
http://www.themanorcottage.co.za 
31 March 2009 - 8:17am
#40
I'm glad to hear it. I have had limited experience with BMW so I wouldn’t want to generalise based on my experiences.
What I gather from the forum is that the guys at auto Atlantic are more interested in helping one than making money. Its a good thing too since dealing with them is almost inevitable
31 March 2009 - 8:22am
#41
Rekall the same can be said for the workshops at Hamman and Donford.
Start with the dealership that is most conveniently located. When I worked in Cape Town I used Atlantic, now that I work in Bellville I use Hamman - I have not one bad experience from either, in fact many GOOD experiences.
31 March 2009 - 8:32am
#42
I dug out an invoice dated 2009/01/30, for TWO (front only)brake pads, for R250.80, for my Dakar, from Atlantic - and it seemed quite reasonable - I beleive they may sell a 2nd brand for those on a budget, - also gave me confidence buying them from Atlantic, for what it's worth.
http://www.themanorcottage.co.za
31 March 2009 - 10:26am
#43
If I let loose who actually makes the brake pads for BMW I think a shocked silence would follow.
RIDE,RACE,PLAY!
I RIDE THEREFORE I AM!
31 March 2009 - 10:34am
#44
R250? Thats slightly cheaper than the SBK pads I bought.
When I commented on the price of the brakes at BMW all I got was a blank stare (no offer of a cheaper brand or a suggestion as to where I could find them cheaper)
My experience was clearly an unlucky isolated incident.
Freak, who makes them? Who makes them?
31 March 2009 - 10:42am
#45
Name ,rank serial number, thats all I can give you.
RIDE,RACE,PLAY!
I RIDE THEREFORE I AM!
31 March 2009 - 11:41am
#46
I had family who worked for Robert Bosch and was able to get hold of a book nobody wants you to have. It lists products according to the part-manufacturer's part numbers, not the car manufacturer's part number. (Such as GUD filters' part numbers for example.) This allows you to look up your particular filter/brake pad and see what other vehicle it fits on. Then you phone around and get prices for that.
In this way I was able to save about 50% by fitting 'Jetta' points to my Mercedes, 200% by fitting 'Jaguar' oil filter to a Rolls-Royce and even more by fitting a Bedford truck airfilter to a Bentley! (Remember, it is the same part, made by the same supplier, just in a different box.)
Once I even had a part shop staffer wanting to know what vehicle the part was for. When I questioned him what difference it made besides the price he was going to charge me, he laughingly admitted this was the case, but then gave me a great deal.
Cheers
Frank
31 March 2009 - 12:18pm
#47
That is a scary story!
31 March 2009 - 12:51pm
#48
Frank a particular Merc uses the same wheel bearing as a Mitsubishi van (actually Mitsu copied the design ...). MAJOR difference in price for the SAME part.
A few years back I did some work at a fish factory. At the end of the production line, just before it is transported they labels were put on. YES, ALL the brands were there. When you ordered 2 boxes of brand A and another couple of boxes of brand B - you would get EXACTLY the same stuff, just a different label. Then the compition comition stepped in (not sure why). The fishing companies then had to "buy" the labels - the one brand sold for R50 mil !! Drive through Ashton and have a look at the range of names on the wall of the canning company - ALL the major brands are still there ......
Do you still believe there is any benefit in paying for a "superior" brand ??
31 March 2009 - 1:04pm
#49
It's like the 'No Name' brand cornflakes filled at the Bokomo factory! Same product in a different doos.
31 March 2009 - 1:26pm
#50
Lol,
It's mostly spanner work and then some press work.
A rubber mallet might be used later.
Just remember the golden rule.......don't force it, just use a larger hammer! :D | © BMW Motorrad Club Cape 2006 - 2020 | Back to live site | Site built and hosted by HoneyBadger.net |
