Archive of BMW Motorrad Club Cape (2006 - 2019)

I've experienced something like this with people from overseas I had on tour.  They suddenly complained about a few thousand rand ie a few hundred dollars, deducted from their account, which was refunded after a period (I seem to remember a month or two).

Apparently done "in error".

Interest free loans when you have cash-flow problems in your company?

and the response from the Company concerned, to someone who alerted them to the thread:

"Hi Andrew

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We are not active on the Wild Dog forum and would not have known this had you not notified us.

I remember the checkout of these motorbikes quite well. 

I did at the checkout point out scuffs as this is normal procedure. I did however note the same on the checkout sheets to reassure the clients that they will not be billed for it when the motorcycles are returned. We do take pictures of the motorcycles before the checkout as well . As you can imagine we get many queries when rental units are returned and the pictures are an easy way to compare the pre-rental and post rental condition. We encourage clients to take their own pictures as well.

After this group left we were contacted the following day after a chain broke on one of the units. We sent a driver still the same day to do a chain replacement, and we exchanged one of the 650 Sertao’s with a F700 GS. The clients were close to Hazyview, and from our depot in Centurion it is still a four hour drive to reach them.  We suspect that the following happened.  The client pointed out that he is not happy about the chain tension on his bike.  We checked and assured the client that the tension was as per BMW specification.  In all likelihood the client stopped along the way and adjusted the chain on his own, which stretched the chain to a point where it broke.  Our in-house mechanic who attended to the breakdown confirmed our suspicion.  The call out to the replace the chain (on a Saturday and Sunday) amounted to R7 500 which we picked up on our own and never billed the client for it, although it very likely is due to his own actions.

We have a fleet of about 75 BMW motorcycles, and the whole fleet is serviced by BMW (Bavarian Motorcycles in Pretoria and Donford in Cape Town). Looking at the condition these motorcycles were in when they were returned , it was clear that a fair amount of offroad riding was done. We cannot comment on the head gasket issue, except that the motorcycle had its prescribed services and maintenance done by the dealer network. This bike is also still under BMW warranty, and if there was a problem, I am sure BMW would have attended to it.  We take note that the area around the head gasket was damp, but as the client mentioned, he never had to add any water to the reservoir. We will never know how exactly this motorcycle was ridden and at what speed, and it must be said the client was riding alone in Namibia, doing vast distances.

It is common knowledge that you will have to do maintenance on any motorcycle if you undertake a three week tour where you will do gravel road riding. This include, but is not limited to, chain lubrication and the checking of battery terminals.  If you undertake an unguided tour in Africa which will include long distances, we would expect you to have at least the basic technical knowledge to look after yourself and the motorcycle and bring the basic tools with you.

We took note of the broken sub-frame bolt , and again, this could happen when a motorcycle is ridden hard or abused. We gave the client the benefit of the doubt and did not bill him for this. The noise from the front wheel is neither here nor there. It is common that the floating break disks on the bike will make a slight noise because of the rivets it is mounted with.  

As for the scratches after Doogle’s fall. He admitted he had a fall , in sand. Whether it was near stopped or not, we will not know. 
Our rental agreement stats the following: “In the event of a fall, collision or damage, however minor, you will be required to complete the Insurance Claim Form overleaf. Please note that Motorrad Executive Rentals have a strict replacement policy on all damaged parts, irrespective of how minor any damage may be” 

In order to assist clients, we do attempt to repair parts if replacement is not necessary. The damages  Doogle refers to was not noted on the checkout sheet, and he admitted to falling in the sand. It is untrue that he did not notice the damages, it was noticed and his response was that the damages are minor.

In order to reach some sort of amicable settlement with the client, any damage charges were waived.

In response to the $1610 charge to the credit card, this is only a hold that is done on the day when the client receives the motorcycle. This hold is in place for 7 days after which it is automatically released. No transaction takes place but because of the hold the client will not be able to access the amount. This particular rental was for more than 3 weeks, and a transaction was effected in order to cover the whole rental period.  Although the refunds have been processed, there is a significant delay because of the disputes lodged. I have been in contact with our bank in order to expedite the process and we hope to confirm the full reversal after the disputes have been resolved.  

We appreciate your effort to afford us the opportunity to state our case and we trust this clarifies the situation. Should you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact our office on +27 12 6650869.

Kind regards

Jason Kilian"

Thank you Andrew for the response.

A little bit about myself. I've ridden around the world solo, Prudhoe Bay,Alaska to Key West,Florida solo, California to the southern most city in the world solo, and the Trans America Trail solo. I was an industrial mechanic/machinist for 31 years at Procter & Gamble. I worked in the power plant, soap making, and edible oil processing plants. I know chains and how to adjust them. It was a big part of my job. We did not adjust chains on these bikes as Jason said:  "The client pointed out that he  is not happy about the chain tension on his bike."   Incorrect. The chain on my bike looked good. The chain on one of the other bikes looked old and worn. Not a tension problem. I said I don't think it will last another 5000 miles. I don't remember if they changed that chain before we left. I thought they did.

Jason also said: "Our in-house mechanic who attended to the breakdown confirmed our suspicion."  What did he confirm? That the chain was broken? At the master link. This chain did not break. It came apart because the retainer clip came off. DID makes great chains. I use them on all my bikes and quads. The German rider in our group said in Germany they aren't allowed to use chains with clips. They must be riveted. 

More from Jason: "It is common knowledge that you will have to do maintenance on any motorcycle if you undertake a three week tour where you will do gravel road riding. This include, but is not limited to, chain lubrication and the checking of battery terminals."  Before we left we asked if there was any maintenance we should do. We thought they might want us to have the oil changed at some point. He said "No". We shouldn't even need to check the oil. But the mechanic showed us how if we wanted to. Maybe Jason can explain to us how you lubricate an o-ring chain. Can you really get grease through the o-rings to lube the pins and bushings? All grease on the outside of an o-ring chain does is attract dirt, grit, and sand that will destroy the o-rings faster. And check the battery terminals during a 3 week trip? PLEASE? Should we also put fresh air in the tires every 1000 miles?

Jason had lots of comments I have issue with. "and it must be said the client was riding alone in Namibia, doing vast distances." Am I not allowed to ride alone? Yes we rode a lot of miles. Did you expect us to put the bikes in a garage for 3 weeks? We rented to ride.

" he admitted to falling in the sand. It is untrue that he did not notice the damages, it was noticed and his response was that the damages are minor."   Yes, I dropped the bike. When I picked it up I looked at the hand guard and didn't notice an damage. When Jason asked if I dropped the bike, I said yes.

Now for what this thread is all about. I would never have started this thread if we each weren't charged $1610 incorrectly. When we signed the credit card hold I asked if anything was going to show up as a charge. I need to let my wife know because she is watching for any suspicious activity while I'm on the road. Jason said there would not be any charges unless we brought the bikes back damaged.

His response from above: "This hold is in place for 7 days after which it is automatically released. No transaction takes place but because of the hold the client will not be able to access the amount. This particular rental was for more than 3 weeks, and a transaction was effected in order to cover the whole rental period. " Jason said there would be no charges  PERIOD. He knew we were renting for more than 3 weeks. I disputed the charge to my credit card company and they took the charge off. It will remain uncharged pending proof from Motorrad that it is authorized. My wife just told me they are disputing our dispute.

Last week the German rider sent a message saying if this problem isn't fixed in 10 days his lawyer will do the fixing.

I really do not think that this issue has anything to do with our club. We have all noted the concerns of  doogle KLR from where ever he was responding as well as the rental agency, but does this really concern an issue on our forum. This is totally a private matter between the two parties and the fact that the rental company rented out BMW products, does not effect our MOTORRAD Club at all or in any way and I do not think we should accommodate this issue on our forum. 

I am not sure if this was a club business deal or not but if not, I think we should be left out of this. 

There are so many other forums on the social media where these concerns can be lodged without involving our club and I really think that our club and forum is not the right place to voice this concern.

This thing is now being read on international forums and surely some individuals will implicate us in this matter and I therefor urge our webmaster to remove this issue from our forum..

Jacques BOTHA

0825150092

Jacques you may be right about the wrong place to post. If so, I am sorry. But if anyone is charged $1610 without cause you might expect some back lash. If you were charged wrongfully what would you do? I feel a duty to let others know my experience so they may avoid the same situation. I am on a lot of forums. And I post. As I searched I found this forum. I was pissed, and wanted to share my experience. 

I never had a problem with BMW motorcycles. But if you charge me $1610 without cause,you better worry about me. I'll spend $20,000 on a lawyer before I'll let someone cheat me out of $1610.

The forum is not the club, the club is not the forum.

While I agree that this issue has nothing to do with the club I believe very strongly that it has everything to do with this forum.

There have been numerous enquiries and requests for bike rental services from locals as well as international users, so this post is 100% relevant.

A search for the word "rent" yielded, amongst others, the following.

• Motorcycles for rent?
• Road bike rental
• Bike rental?
• GS rental in Cape Town?
• Rent a Bike
• Where to rent a GS ?

Sharing of information by consumers is precisely what keeps suppliers "honest" (I am explicitly not suggesting that suppliers are dishonest!).

The supplier in this particular instance has taken the opportunity to state his side of the story, so readers are now free to draw their own conclusions and/or engage further with either party.

There is a very healthy culture on this forum of giving Credit where Credit is due.

Agree with Mwendo, there are 3 sides to a story, we have read the 2 relevant sides. I have my point of view. 

Maybe you should also try the forum "HELLO PETER.COM" which I have used on my ROUTE 66 TRIP

Jacques BOTHA 

0825150092

I Agree with Mwendo,

Caveat emptor

This forum is an appropriate place for giving feedback and talking of experiences.

Feedback is important for future business dealings.

Balanced feedback is very good, i am glad the vendor had an opportunity to give a response on wD and thanks Chris for sharing.

I have rented a bike for a 1000 mile trip in Europe and I made very sure of the small print before I selected the vendor I sued and I also asked them to scrutinise on the spot and return my 'held' insurance deposit money.

This they did.

It cost me and extra hour on returning the bike and a change in schedule so their surveyor/mechanic was on hand when I returned, but this is easy to coordinate if you call in advance.

So for me, I had a good user experience with that vendor in the UK.

Hmm so you're saying the UK is in Europe? Well I guess we know which way you will be voting then, eh?

There's always one that totally misses the point.... isn't there.

The 1000 mile trip was in Europe!

The bike came from next door.

Hmm so you're saying the UK is in Europe? Well I guess we know which way you will be voting then, eh?

Since I was was 5 years old I knew England was in the UK and the UK was in Europe. Have they moved it Tiaan?

OK lighten up, guys. I assumed you were aware of the upcoming UK referendum on staying in the EU, aka Brexit. My comment was therefore just a clumsy attempt at humour in reference to that highly topical issue - with potentially massive ramifications.

So, if "the point" was that no humour is allowed then I plead guilty to missing it entirely.

Gee people can be stiff on this forum. I enjoyed the humour.

Sorry I haven't check and updated on this forum. The other 2 riders did have their charges reversed. Mine was never paid because I disputed it early enough. And I haven't heard anything from my credit card company since. Below is a post I did on another forum a while back. I wanted to post it here also as a follow up.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A little bit about myself. I've ridden around the world solo, Prudhoe Bay,Alaska to Key West,Florida solo, California to the southern most city in the world solo, and the Trans America Trail solo. I was an industrial mechanic/machinist for 31 years at Procter & Gamble. I worked in the power plant, soap making, and edible oil processing plants. I know chains and how to adjust them. It was a big part of my job. We did not adjust chains on these bikes as Jason said:  "The client pointed out that he  is not happy about the chain tension on his bike."   Incorrect. The chain on my bike looked good. The chain on one of the other bikes looked old and worn. Not a tension problem. I said I don't think it will last another 5000 miles. I don't remember if they changed that chain before we left. I thought they did.

Jason also said: "Our in-house mechanic who attended to the breakdown confirmed our suspicion."  What did he confirm? That the chain was broken? At the master link. This chain did not break. It came apart because the retainer clip came off. DID makes great chains. I use them on all my bikes and quads. The German rider in our group said in Germany they aren't allowed to use chains with clips. They must be riveted. 

More from Jason: "It is common knowledge that you will have to do maintenance on any motorcycle if you undertake a three week tour where you will do gravel road riding. This include, but is not limited to, chain lubrication and the checking of battery terminals."  Before we left we asked if there was any maintenance we should do. We thought they might want us to have the oil changed at some point. He said "No". We shouldn't even need to check the oil. But the mechanic showed us how if we wanted to. Maybe Jason can explain to us how you lubricate an o-ring chain. Can you really get grease through the o-rings to lube the pins and bushings? All grease on the outside of an o-ring chain does is attract dirt, grit, and sand that will destroy the o-rings faster. And check the battery terminals during a 3 week trip? PLEASE? Should we also put fresh air in the tires every 1000 miles?

Jason had lots of comments I have issue with. "and it must be said the client was riding alone in Namibia, doing vast distances." Am I not allowed to ride alone? Yes we rode a lot of miles. Did you expect us to put the bikes in a garage for 3 weeks? We rented to ride.

" he admitted to falling in the sand. It is untrue that he did not notice the damages, it was noticed and his response was that the damages are minor."   Yes, I dropped the bike. When I picked it up I looked at the hand guard and didn't notice an damage. When Jason asked if I dropped the bike, I said yes.

Now for what this thread is all about. I would never have started this thread if we each weren't charged $1610 incorrectly. When we signed the credit card hold I asked if anything was going to show up as a charge. I need to let my wife know because she is watching for any suspicious activity while I'm on the road. Jason said there would not be any charges unless we brought the bikes back damaged.

His response from above: "This hold is in place for 7 days after which it is automatically released. No transaction takes place but because of the hold the client will not be able to access the amount. This particular rental was for more than 3 weeks, and a transaction was effected in order to cover the whole rental period. " Jason said there would be no charges  PERIOD. He knew we were renting for more than 3 weeks. I disputed the charge to my credit card company and they took the charge off. It will remain uncharged pending proof from Motorrad that it is authorized.