Archive of BMW Motorrad Club Cape (2006 - 2019)

It's a practical thing - how do you have a ride on saturday, compete in the skills challenge AND, after waiting for the judges to score, compete in the final in one day? Also, the skills challenge final IS the big event for Sunday to keep people over. If you replace it with the Gymkhana, you will end up with almost nobody doing the gymkhana because everybody will 'gap it' (why I don't know - we would have stayed indefinitaly we were having so much fun). Personally, I think it is a poor show not to stay until the end. Perhaps we should use the age-old trick of marathon organizers: keep the lucky draw until the very end, together with the skills challenge prize-giving. But then we also get into some catering issues, since we will be running into lunch-time.

Actually, seeing the pictures of the Sunday skills challenge, I too regret not staying. Had I known that skills challenge was going to be more than a ride on the field, I'd have hung around. So, if I can make one recommendation, create a NOTICE BOARD telling people where things are, what is happening and when they're happening. It would be good to list the exhibitors too so people know who is actually exhibiting, when and what they're doing. Quite possibly, they would have event specials, a great way of notifying people of this. Lawrence Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safetly in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadsides, loudly proclaiming WOW, What a RIDE!

You could have the first round of the Skills Challenge on the Friday it could even run into the evening... Spot lights on the grass and you sorted. You then still have the Saturday morning rides and then the final of the skills challenge in the late afternoon on the Saturday with the main dinner and awards in the evening. Sunday morning could consist of another out-ride... maybe a ALL BIKE ride and a Gymkhana with a lucky draw... could this work? Otherwise it was still a great event even with it's current format ;-) Corné Kloppers 0849130391 ckloppers@gmail.com

Thnx Corne & Hermanator - good suggestions. These are some of the things that will be looked at for NC 2009......there will be some surprises at NC 2009. JohandeJager It takes more love to share the saddle than it does to share the bed. I'm the guy that'll be sneaking out of the bedroom at three o'clock in the morning to look at my bike.

yeah... now I feel bad I didn't stay to the end. But like many others I'm sure, I was sore and tired and hot... and just wanted to get home. Oh yeah.... I also had a hot date planned. But I think its human nature that people will leave as soon as its convenient. No one really likes to be the last person left standing at a party. I think the organization and timing of the events were fine... maybe just tweak them a little next time. Corne's suggestion of having the skills challenge a day earlier is a good one. Maybe the market/stalls should be on the sunday?

Corne take a step back and look at the "bigger" picture. This is a GS weekend with one ride for the on-road crowd. Yes, there are exibits etc. But look at many road bikes came to Nelson's Creek did the Mystery tour and then went back home. Some did came back for the Saturday night function. Whether we like it or not the "on-road" crowd is a "different" bunch of people - at least many of us. Standing in the heat and dust watching GS bikes kick up more dust just does not do it for us. Many of us does not even want to ride our bikes on that short stretch of gravel. Corne before you laugh to hard - if any of us put our RT down like you did with your bike it is at least 10 000 to 15 000 rand of damage to repair all those panels. Well that is my 2 sents. Now I'll go hide.

Chris, sadly ,well put, looking at a coin we see head's or tail's seldom both sides....I Really Missed the road guys; and don't blame them at all, some may also have had other commitments. I know each time Jane and I ride there (with both bikes)I worry as road bikes DON'T FALL WELL,they don't have Free falls or R500 falls.Only Expensive ....... Someone suggested a group ride, we have breakfast rides, Christmas dinners ,N Creek weekends as yet never had a huge get-together (although all these are opportunities!!) to meet all.Just as Cheesy missed JohanM, well here is to the HOPE that it may happen.

Sundays will always be a problem to keep people there. It's in our nature that half of us will get up on Sunday morning and want to go home. Something else. The bar area can be better utilised. Registration must move inside or to a tent. Create more space for people to chill. Kobus --------- Dream like you will live forever, live like you're going to die tomorrow

Neil I have had a lot of feedback after the Mystery tour. One of the "off-roaders" even said out rigth that the "standard" breakfast run is too boring for him, BUT a tar ride with the mystery component added is something that he would want to be part of. Having joined JR on the Warmwaterberg trip I saw "another side" of the club. I DO understand why some people enjoy riding on dirt. There IS something "extra" to those rides. Hopefully I will again be a backup driver on an off road trip. We are seriously looking at another mystery ride in the very near future. This would probably take the form of a day ride, with a sheduled breakfast and lunch stop. Unfortunately logistics would force us to limit this to a reasonable number of bikes. FACT IS, ONLY Nelson's Creek is big enough to cater for the WHOLE club.

Thnx for all the suggestions and comments guys, ANYTIME you want to pass something on to me for next year's event -please feel free to do so to johan@ghib.com The BEST time to work on next year's event is NOW while we can all still remember the changes wanted or suggested. JohandeJager It takes more love to share the saddle than it does to share the bed. I'm the guy that'll be sneaking out of the bedroom at three o'clock in the morning to look at my bike.

Padlangs, I agree with you, when I entered the gate and saw the gravel I almost turned back and went home. Driving up to the camp site was a nightmare, left my bike at the bottom the next day. I had visions of shiny red paint rubbing off on gravel all weekend.

With regards to the ride in at NC, I do feel for the road guys and ladies, however this is encountered at a fair number of breakfast ride venues. Jane has done over 40km on gravel with her bike, Alvin did +- 20 km with his RT. I was more concerned than she was. Methinks Padlangs has been off-road too!:-) Jane just stood slightly,her er er um... back part just out of the saddle, I think Alvin said he did the same. No problem, remain calm and very gentle throttle and brake responses.

Neil I have done that (and many other) gravel entrances - and I still do not like it. :( Not for fear of physical damage to Greta or myself - THOSE PANELS ............ Point in case, if there is another trip to Hoggsback I will NOT do it, just because of the last kilometer on dirt road. There are enough places that I can see without having to go onto dirt.

On a dirt road surface, the RT will be fine. It's the technique of riding on dirt that changes. Off Roading the RT Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safetly in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadsides, loudly proclaiming WOW, What a RIDE!

technique and tire pressure... I can imagine the RT feels very slippery with tar pressures.. Corné Kloppers 0849130391 ckloppers@gmail.com

If somebody offers to pay damages I will even do a GS challenge with my RT, untill then I prefer to stay on tar, less stressfull on the heart, cholestrol take a back seat. Sorry, Neil, price wise my panniers, fairing and mirrors do not compare with yours, No offense, I am sure they are cheaper on Jane's bike too. If BMW wants to stage an event like this they should offer huge discounts to us roadies, did you see Warren riding? He did so much for the event, his words regarding the access road are not repeatable, I doubt if I will attend next year, it is clearly for off-roaders only

I was endevouring to remain positive and encouraging as bad news sells better than good...not so? No offense taken. Pro Rata Jane will feel as much or more pain than you. Padlangs you can come out now, I'd better go hide.:-)

In 07 I was on the RT and had planned, for this year, to do the road ride on the RT. I would then take the RT home and come back on the Dakar to do the skills challenge (oh how I wish I had stuck to this plan). But next year, I'll be on the RT as I'd like to alternate. The drive at Nelson's Creek is quite fine and manageable and next year, as our guests, I would like to nominate that we invite Ulyses members, which will bring more road riders and a good mix to the proceedings. Lawrence Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safetly in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadsides, loudly proclaiming WOW, What a RIDE!

Corne, try to imagine a RT with pillion, both panniers and top box LOADED, and the ABS playing havoc on loose gravel. Each time you think the bike has stopped the ABS lets go and the bike moves forward a little more, with a little dash of side ways movement of the front wheel. THAT is what I experienced at Cape Agulhas. FORTUNATELY we eventually stopped without any damage to the bike. Speak to anybody that has done some track time. The suspension of a road bike is completely different to that of an off road bike. Also roadies are NOT used to switching off the ABS. Lets not even talk about the tyres (or pressures). Dit is mos nou net eenvoudig "kak soek". (skuus, maar daar is nie n ander woord wat die gevoel kan oordra nie) William, possibly some of us roadies should corner Dave at the next club meeting and see if we can come up with some solution to this situation. Possibly even another location, like Opstal. With paved access. A change of scenery could be a positive. Johan I will talk to you about this off-line.

Lawrence, thanks for deflecting the arrows.:-) Chris that is why I love tar, no sideways wiggling :-) Cape Agulhas is loose, NC is like tar in comparison. Enough let me hide.;-)

I'm sorry you feel that way. We specifically organized the gymkhana, and the mystery tour (thanks Padlangs and Brian) to make the roadies feel more welcome. Now that we know about your fear of any gravel whatsoever, we can strive to cater for your need in some way. Perhaps we can have a crew to walk your bike from the tar to the camp site, or we organize a temporary garage on the R44 or something. I am pretty sure the venue will not change. But the roadies might find a place nearby with tarred driveways and camping and or cottages, and we could have a (luxury naturally) bus to ferry you through to Nelson's Creek for the exhibitions, meals and whatnot. I have a motorcycling safety book, and they recommend that even roadies should do one bit of off-road every year (on an off-road bike off course), to maintain your skills on surfaces with poor traction. Even on a GS, after riding on tar for an hour or two, it is a bit of an adjustment when you first hit gravel (especially when loaded, with pillion, and all your buddies watching from the bar ;-)

Its always the roadies scenario!!!!!!!!! well CHARLES I do NOT appreciate your comments above. sounds like a attack on the whole ROAD community for one, if you are PRO OFFROAD ONLY thats your choice Personally I think you have overstepped your boundry. this club has enough to deal with comments,remarks and debates regarding sensitive on road and off road issues. If You want to create a segregation you are certainly heading on the right path. who do you think you are!!!!! expect roadies to listen to your onesided HANDBOOK advice!!!!! AT this rate i will resign myself from the club and all its activities!!!!! Aka Beemerstyle

Warren, I am with you on this one. Up until Charles's comment this was a constructive debate, that could have led to a sensible solution for all. BMW SA is worried about the low number of road bikes being sold in SA. Charles's attitude will in NO WAY encourage anybody to buy a road bike, NOR a "roadie" to join any such function. Neil, you are RIGHT! Cape Agulhas is LOOSE. ;) However, that experience reminded me that an RT off tar is tantamount to "russian rolette", just a matter of time before .......

Warren, relax, don't take it too seriously. I've noticed that some individuals love the knee-jerk, moan, critisize, retaliate approach to life. I think it's an "old man, my way or no way" thing. I'm actually surprised there were no complaints that an under-aged competitor was allowed to ride an unlicenced bike in the challenge! After all battery power just isn't the thing ... is battery an onroad or offroad thing? Can't work it out. Probably no moans cos he can't read yet :-) My approach - ignore the moaners and groaners and focus on the posititve aspects of the club. Me ... I'm joining the guys who are looking at opportunities to improve an already excellent event - the misery lovers aint going to spoil my memories! Whether you think you can, or can't, you'll find you're right!

I am a roadie and I like it. I will however always have the urge to go on the gravel and would have loved to be able to do so. I however feel that my circumstances is of such that I can not do that. This is the reason I stay on the tar. All three my bikes are roadies. Let everybody do what he is comfortable with and whenever we are organizing an event lets take all riders in consideration. Most of the time we roadies need to go on gravel to reach a certain destination on our breakfast runs. This usually does not bother us. I will anytime travel 2 to 3 Km's on gravel with the RT if the gravel is reasonable. I just agree with Padlangs that it is everytime like playing roulette with the bike.

Warren, Padlangs Chill. No offense was meant and I have no negative attitude towards on-road riders. I apologize unconditionally if what I thought were some attempts at finding a solution to making Nelson's Creek more appealing to you came across as offensive. Sorry. kind regards Charles Oertel

Charles I refrained replying to your Tongue in Cheek comment/ post.....was up at 5.30 to see if the fur was flying yet! (luxury naturally):-)

I am a forum member. Not a Club member Sort of a newbie and ride a GS Reading this, I would like to make two (constructive?) comments to try and help. I did not know that the road bikers are so sensitive about their bikes on gravel, but reading this, I think I understand. I suggest a meeting WITH them to discuss possibilities the way they would appreciate . My second comment is more personal - Reading this, I realized how fortunate I am with a GS, since I can do both road and gravel - as I wanted when I chose to buy a bike. I enjoy this lifestyle, as I am sure the road bikers do enjoy their choice of lifestyle!

Hello Johan. JIP, die GS het n paar voordele! Laas Mei het ek en my vrou 5 000 km in 9 dae gedoen. Al die pad op tot by St Lucia, verder noord en toe bietjie binneland toe. Terug deur die Vrystaat. Dit was n PUIK ervaring. My enigste hartseer is die hoeveelheid goed wat ons NIE gesien het nie - stof paaie. :( Ek het dit nou al n paar keer gesê, en gaan dit nou weer hier sê. Die ENIGSTE rede hoekom ek nie my RT op stof ry nie - een "glipsie" en dit is 10 000 tot 15 000 rand se skade! Met so n "gewig" op jou gewete is dit mos onmoontlik om die rit te geniet. Die RT manne het nie n enkele negatiewe woord gerep oor die GS brigade nie, en nou kom Charles met sy venynige kommentaar. Charles, as dit "tongue-in-cheeck" was, gebruik dan n paar "smilies" om dit DUIDELIK te maak as n swak grap. My kometaar was dalk "kalmer" as Warren, MAAR ek is net so WOEDEND soos hy!

Hey guys relax! Life is too short in getting angry about discussions like this. If you don't want to take your RT on gravel then don't it's as simple as that. In terms of activities at Nelsons Creek I felt the road ride had more to offer because the opportunity was there to win something. And I only realised it on the Saturday night dinner. I did the Orange route and that was it... I was too late for the Gymkhana on Friday and I didn't make it to the second round of the skills challenge. Come to think of it... there was NO way would have taken my 650GS on the Sunday Skills Challenge had I made it to the final :-) We all have things we like/dislike it's the way you convey it to other people that bring about change. Anger is the downfall of comprehension. Corné Kloppers 0849130391 ckloppers@gmail.com

Actually, the only tongue-in-cheek part was my comment about the luxury bus. I was genuinely trying to find a solution for you guys. All I could come up with was some means of getting the bikes into Nelson's Creek without damaging them, and: * trailers seemed too onerous, * a synthetic grass pathway over the gravel would be too slippery. So, all that remains is either * a team of people to guide the bike over the gravel, * or a shelter right at or close to the entrance, otherwise, * perhaps a separate venue nearby. I'm sorry if that's all I could think of. It is also a fact that the author of my book on motorcycling safety is world renowned, and also that he recommends all bikers practice emergency braking once a year and do the occasional off-road ride. Use it, don't use it.

My opinie is dat kleinlikhede n goeie forum, vriendskappe en veral die klub net skade kan aanrig. Die ledetalle moet verbeter en uitgebrei word en julle gaan dit nie op die manier regkry nie. Stap af van die onderwerp en bou aan die positiewe asseblief!!!

Well said Jacques, Why is it that everyone just wants to "fight" to have their thoughts honoured and respected instead of when this happens just taking a step back and look at the "scenario" from a distance?? I spoke to someone yesterday that was at NC and in this discussion it was said "you know the people that I saw at NC and the people on the website, does not seem to be the same people". In asking him why he says this the answer was "all you see on the forum is the moaning and groaning about the dealers and the politics thereof, on top of this the continous bitching between the roadies and the off road guys". Reading this thread and some of the comments on it, I ask myself the question - why can we have a great weekend together at NC in each others company and yet on the forum someone says something that one does not agree with - "die hare waai". Look at big Warren, we spent and awesome weekend together in each others company - when my boet arrived I introduced him to Warren to keep him busy as I was running around - Warren's reply to my request "boet there is my tent, in my tent there's a cooler box, go help yourself and then look for me an join me!" AWESOME, afterwards Warren and I had some good chats....so WHAT if I ride a R1200 GSA, so WHAT if Warren rides a RT, we all ride BMW motorbikes - we have to respect the fact that BMW caters for ALL riding levels and requirements. You want to cruise on tar in style buy a RT - AWESOME. You want to go fast on tar buy one of those "mean looking" 1150's You want to do dirt buy a GS of sorts. AS EASY AS THAT. EVERYONE that has made a comment here as a valid comment as this is how he or she feels - why try and confince them otherwise. If Padlangs & the road guys feel that something needs to be done to look at the entrance as they have concerns about their bikes - it needs to be voiced, then voice it to me and I'll make a plan for NC09; it's their right - to go on the forum and say "if this does not change then I'm not foing to NC09" I do not agree as it is impossible to keep 200 - 300 people happy and cater for EVERY PERSON onthe weekend's needs - impossible. You can't DEMAND what will and will not happen at NC09. We are a BMW group/family and we need to cater AS FAR AS POSSIBLE for ALL of those involved - be it on a RT or a GS. We need to stop being so sensative and always want to defend - no one is attacking, why defend, Do not say something to an other that you might feel offended by if this was said to you ?? What picture are we sending out to the visitors and new members to both this website and the club? If I was looking to join a club/website I AS SURE AS HELL would not join either of these establishments after all this nonsense going on. BMW - that's the BIG PICTURE. Johan de Jager It takes more love to share the saddle than it does to share the bed. I'm the guy that'll be sneaking out of the bedroom at three o'clock in the morning to look at my bike.

Charles appologies accepted. I had absolutely no issue with nc the reason i brought the bike on a trailer was that i had sponsored a plasma and a 6kva generator for the weekend and therfore had to transport the items to NC otherwise i would have gone through the gates with the bike. In fact the first week of owning my bike i went on a breakfast run to nc with it. Aka Beemerstyle

Man O Man, Why are people so sensitive? this is totally against the enjoyment factor,is this not what we are here for? enjoyment!! Hey Warren that 'ol Buffalo is super lekkerrr, very smooth,I look forward to our next sample. Thanks for taking Simpewe under your wing, he speaks highly of you. Ignore opinions, heed facts. Feet on the pegs, always.

The term "sensitivity" (as applied to an analytical method's performance) has again become a subject of controversy. Certain authorities (e.g., IUPAC) define a system's sensitivity as the response curve slope (or response/dose), others (e.g., IFCC) in terms of the detection limit. Many investigators have failed to perceive the contradiction between these concepts, wrongly assuming that maximizing "sensitivity" in the first sense maximizes it in the second (i.e., that they are inversely related). The existence of different meanings for this term (when used in the present context) is a source of confusion that has, among other things, led to erroneous ideas relating to immunoassay design. Such confusion should be terminated by adoption of one or the other of the definitions. However, the definitions are not of equal merit. We advance arguments against retention of the "slope" definition, which conflicts with the word's common meaning and is meaningless as an indicator of the performance of a measuring system. Need I say more? JohandeJager It takes more love to share the saddle than it does to share the bed. I'm the guy that'll be sneaking out of the bedroom at three o'clock in the morning to look at my bike.

Nee Hel Johan was se jy? :-) Jy het my verloor :-| Corné Kloppers 0849130391 ckloppers@gmail.com

Only Neil is allowed to be sensitive ... he is the one wearing the pink shirts ;-) Corné Kloppers 0849130391 ckloppers@gmail.com

Nou verstaan jy...ek probeer almal confuse sodat ons die "ou" gevoel terugkry soos Cheesy genoem het naamlik "JOY" soos in "ENJOYMENT". JohandeJager It takes more love to share the saddle than it does to share the bed. I'm the guy that'll be sneaking out of the bedroom at three o'clock in the morning to look at my bike.

he he :-) This sensitivity is what addles my brain like a question that even befuddled the professor. I was discombobulated by all of the possibilities like a complex plot line that fuddled once comprehension.

JdJ, don't get technical! There's only one sensitive member on this forum and he wears pink shirts and sends Valentines greetings to all the females! Well said though - on all counts. Whether you think you can, or can't, you'll find you're right!

Being sensitive is a good thing, it indicates an alertness which can cause one to act or refrain from an action as it may cause harm. When this sensitivity, this alertness,is covered (usually caused by self interest, fears, doubts and similar emotions) then often anger arises giving energy( a type of compulsive or impulsiveness) but with clouded judgement and often further harm. I find often the solution to a situation is not a radical change in actions but a full acceptance of the circumstances then usually my negative emotions die down/receed, suddenly opening the way forward. Sometimes it indicates a change of course and sometimes not.There is always a sense of goodwill under these conditions. I think what is commonly called sensitivity is egoisim.

Egoisim, by philosophical definition, is the theory that everything we do is drivin by self-interest and self-interest only.

To get back on topic (which is '''Suggestions for NC09'''): # There should be refreshments on sale at the Skills Challenge finals on Sunday morning (or to generalize this - let's make sure that any spectator events are covered ito basic needs like toilets, drinks, food, shade, chairs as appropriate). # The ''mystery tour'' concept could be applied to an off-road ride too (obviously only a green route for safety reasons). # Judging by some of the other comments on this thread, on Friday night we could have a philosophy skills contest - the winner gets to ride their bike ;-)

Or think they are!;-)

Good idea! I can be filisp, philysof, philofosi ... sensitive. Whether you think you can, or can't, you'll find you're right!

With regards to the mystery tour, I have a friend (the one that invited me) that did it, but his pillion lost the notes and they just went and enjoyed a ride, but to me, what would be a good idea is to arrange small groups to do it, because the pleasure of a ride shared (to me anyway) is the pleasure of a ride doubled, and there is nothing nicer than riding with your buddies, or have a stranger along and within a ride you have a new friend. you get to share all the things you saw and that makes it more special than any ride that you do on your own. if others feel different, we all have our own opinions, but that is my 5 cents worth. i know i go riding every sunday with 3 friends, and we always have some special moment that we remember when we get together again. ride safe one and all. I think animal testing is a terrible idea - they get all nervous and give the wrong answers.

KTM, thanks for your input. We are definately looking at "small groups" for the next mystery event. The only draw back with this is, who in the group gets the prize? :) Small groups also have the advantage of a shorter starting period. It took 1 and a half hours to get 25 bikes started. No complaint here - it was fun and I will do it again any time. Please tell Michelle I still have her half a booklet, if she wants it for the family album.

Very good comments/suggestions for NC09 - well done, all of these will be taken into account for NC09. Well said TvN. JohandeJager It takes more love to share the saddle than it does to share the bed. I'm the guy that'll be sneaking out of the bedroom at three o'clock in the morning to look at my bike.

I'd also like to do the mystery run again next year, but I'll be doing one of the off-road routes first. If I can muster enough strength to get onto the bike I'll pop a pillion on the back to keep me upright and do the mystery run. It was great fun doing it on my own as I got a chance to look around and take in some of the scenery I normally don't notice. The only thing is you have to keep reminding yourself to stick to the speed limit, no faster no slower. I had a great time on this years one, thnx to the organizers and the hours they spent riding and measuring the KM's!!!