Archive of BMW Motorrad Club Cape (2006 - 2019)

Awesome initiative, can we do the same thing in the afternoon?

Absolutley - the more the merrier - Nicky (aka Buzz Lightyear on wild dogs) is there almost everyday - You and I could stop on the going up side in the am and the into town side in the pm. Anybody else

Shaded,no "gloving" of pedestrians!:-)

Guys just be careful. It's illegal to stop on a National road and yes I know it's also illegal to walk on a National road (or walk across it) Remember taking the law into your own hands accomplishes nothing and two wrongs does not make it right. You actually have know right to tell somebody to use another road, this thing can quickly turn into a racial heat wave. Best thing you can do is to be extra aware when you ride on the N1 past Canal Walk. You know people run across the road. I stand up when I ride past there and I can see them from a mile away and I never have close shaves with them. Please don't take this personal :-) Happy days :-) Regards, Corné

Corne - thanks for the comments. We had the traffic cops actually stop and chat to us - there where supportive of what we are trying to achieve - they drove off - we carried on sending people back. It has nothing whatsoever to do with race - but rather to do with danger. save there lives and our own - a female pedestrian was taken out there on saturday - if a bike had hit her the rider would have been Man / Woman down as well - Not nice.

I won't "glove" anything - I SWEAR! :P Steve, great idea. WWBLD? (What would Buzz-Lightyear do?) As for stopping on a National Road - we're on GS's - and as long as you're 2 metres from the Shoulder line, it's no longer illegal (AFAIK), so we can just park our bikes in the bush off to the side.

I've posted the idea on WD - hoping someone will pick it up and run with it there too. If I'd known, I'd of been on the N1 this morning at that time too. Would love to help. I've seen what happens to someone that gets hit at around 120km/h trying to cross a road. The Fire Engine was called in to wash down the road afterwards.

I fully understand what you saying Steve and I hope you guys get something good out of this. Just as a side note. These people run over the road because it's the shortest route to get home or to work. Now just imagine you've done some hard labour the whole day for peanuts and now you have to walk home (probably a few kilometers) and somebody tells you that you have to walk a longer way round? It’s not the peoples fault that there is not a proper pedestrian bridge, infact that stretch of road needs about 3 pedestrian bridges. Best thing to do IMHO is to take it up with the people that should build these pedestrian bridges. Regards, Corné

Ek dink jy't dalk die verkeerde kat aan die stert beet hier ou maat. So, ek werk hard, ek kan ook maar sommer doen wat ek wil, maak nie saak wat die wet se nie? Die lewe werk nie so nie - sommige tye, is dit maar sleg, but we build a bridge and get over it. Just because you've had a long day, doesn't entitle you to disobey the law and put the lives of others in harms way - I don't agree with your Statement at all Pantsula.

There are two bridges less than 500 meters apart - they walk between them - so i dont really buy that as an excuse - But you are - right a couple of pedestrian bridges would definetly help

Enthusiasm releases the drive to carry you over obstacles and adds significance to all you do. - Norman Vincent Peale, Protestant preacher and author Riding is life (especially on two wheels)

Hear hear HedleyJ

Not true, go measure again. Those bridges are more that 2km apart. Okay I don't want to get into semantics here. The fact is people run across the road because it's not easy to use the bridges at the moment. Look at the bridge on the N7 side next time you drive past (or stop). There is no easy way to get onto that bridge. people have to crawl thought a fence and go up an unpaved slope that gets muddy and slippery when wet. Regards, Corné My blog - http://cornekloppers.blogspot.com/

Ok - there are actually three bridges then - many pedestrians use the rail bridge (also illegal i am sure - but safer than crossing the road) - that is the one I was referring to - you see them walking over your head everyday. As to your comments - this is exactly what is needed - if a few steps cut into a bank will help to solve the problem then it should be done. Right now the problem is being ignored. Personally i would rather negotiate a slippery slope than a freeway with cars flying past in excess of 120kms per hour. The objective is to create awareness - get a presence there - let people see what is going on - create pressure to force corrective action. (Thanks Hedley)

Pantsula, How do people get to that bridge to begin with? The N7, which crosses the N1, is the northern offramp closest to it, and sable road, the southern, both CROSS the N1, neither require steep muddy slopes to be traversed. If taxi's are dropping them off there - I have to ask why? They should be dropped off at proper Taxi stop/drop points, we know that's not going to happen though, so they should be dropped off on the bridges. If they're getting there any other way, they're already climbing through fences they shouldn't be. As far as I see it, there is no excuse whatsoever, no matter how far apart the closest bridges are.

Okay I've could have said a few more things related to this topic however my `new` form conduct is that of happiness and composure :-) Alan and Steve take care and keep it safe! I will be the first to applaud and congratulate you guys when something good comes out of this. No worries :-) Pantsula

Steve, Buzz has started a google calendar so that we can collate the who and whens, send him your google account details and he'll share it to you too. If anyone else is willing to lend a hand / interested - let us know.

Forgive me - What is a Google Calendar?? Corne Thanks for the support and the constructive comment - lets hope something good does come out of it. Steve

It's a calendar that runs through Google / Gmail, you can schedule appointments, share the calendar with other google account holders etc (and it's FREE)

I agree with Corne 100% on this, let's pool our imaginative thinking and come up with a campaign/approach that does not involve breaking the law ourselves.It is illegal running across a freeway, but it is very convenient for the blokes who uses the public transport. IMO the Western Cape Government should be providing a pedestrian bridge/subway to serve the very obvious need of the pedestrians. My 2c TbK

That is exactly what we are trying to achieve!

I gave this some more thought. Here is my proposal. Let approach this whole thing with one goal in mind, “The Safety of the Pedestrians” We could hand out some soft drinks (cokes or juice) and ask the people to rather use the bridge and inform them about how dangerous it is to cross the N1 between cars. We all know how dangerous it for us bikers but rather focus the whole campaign on them, hopefully that way you actually get the message to them that we care about their safety just as much as we care about our own safety. Let’s set this up! Get permission from the road traffic department, get the newspapers there, get a sponsor for the juice or soft drinks and hand them out to the people that we lured to rather use the bridge and put a positive spin on this whole thing. We could also make a small flyer with a short message on (in all 11 languages) about the dangers in crossing a national road N1. It’s our road, let’s make it safer for everybody! Regards, Corné

Pantsula, I like the new Forum-you. I don't think the people running over the N1 enjoy what they are doing. There is a very real need to shorten their walk to the train station. I applaud all the effort/ discussion about this problem, as it affects me personally on my commute by car and when I use my bike. However it is not for us to police this matter. Contacting the Mayor's office might be a better option, by all accounts she'll make sure something gets done! Also spare a thought for those people who run across the road to get to public transport after a days work being confronted by a couple of guys telling them to walk a couple more kms to get to catch the train; try and place yourselves in their shoes! Imagine what they are thinking whist walking the extra distance, maybe missing their train, their connecting taxi and having to walk to their tin shacks.There is such disparity in our great country , lets not create a situation of "them and us".

Excuse me, get a life, new pedestrian bridge over the R300, the next day two people were killed under it, too much effort to walk up the stairs. New bridge over N7 at Joe Slovo and Bonteheuwel, nobody uses it.

I wish I'd had a camera with me on the N2 recently. There were people running across the N2 and climbing over the centre barrier, while cows were walking across the footbridge above them. Any effort to keep pedestrians (2 or 4 legged) off the roads will be helpful though. Much safer for us. ''If you can dream it you can do it!''

You're Excused! Your comment that I should "get a life" is quite off! I, as you are a member to this forum and entitled to my opinion.I did not attack anybody, I am just trying to caution against vigilante action. The issue of possible violence against our "do gooders" was raised on WD, now this is really stupid! Putting yourself and fellow bikers in a possible position of danger whilst "Policing" the law. You my friend, missed my point entirely; I agree that running across the road is both illegal and dangerous and must be stopped, it is just not for us to go and physically stop them. Live and let live William & allow other people to voice their opinion it will open a whole new world of interesting discussions and interaction. Tertius

All the comments have truth and validity. William is correct, the building of a pedestrian bridge is unlikely to help, as the 'Shortest Route' will most likely still be used, for 2x reasons: time and excitement/challenge...(much the same reasons we use/ride bikes). I do think we ought to try. I also think,that although it is not legal, it may work to hand out cool-drinks and encouraging people to use the bridge (with press involvement....William??) is more likely to work for NOW than plain letter writing and quicker too, as bridge there will take a while to plan and build with bureaucracy. But!!! send the letter it's election time! It does seem some form of action is needed,if we're acting unselfishly, as Corné and others have proposed, not just for 'bikers' some good will come out of it.

Some of the Forum posters may lack a little finesse in their choice and usage of words...let it pass and look for the gold in them....it may keep things cooler. As to the vigilante/ violence concerns, I may be mistaken but I did not read into any of the posts, that anyone ought to try to forcibly prevent people from crossing, polite verbal persuasion is always best (as previous posts highlight!:-)) On a lighter note: we had best act swiftly, cows breed their relatives may appear on the N1 soon.:-)

Neil read this topic on WD were one comment was made that the particular enforcer suggested that should the occasion arise he has protection ready.... now call me stupid but this is asking for trouble

If we are going to respond to this situation on the N1, it would be best we do it soonest, as once it gets darker and the rains come it will be far more dangerous for all, and the longer these actions continue the more difficult it will be to encourage change. tbk I did re-read the WD's postings, the sense I have is not one of aggressive stopping of the crossers, yes some beer type talk, but on the whole positive and dignified. The gent, a WD who started doing something is to be congratulated, it is good to see people standing up looking for greater good. I hope this thread stays on track and a positive outcome results.

My two cents worth : Corne well done on being so caring , but with respect I have to disagree : Giving cool drinks may worsen the problem , it could lure hundreds more people to that site the next day , and also set a precedent for cool drinks every day . It may also be seen as condescending . The taxi drivers understand striking ,so when a group of bikers go on strike, surely that will be speaking the same language as the cowboy pedestrians . I believe it is good if the intention is good and the results are good. And if the intention is to attempt to reduce the unnecessary slaughter on our roads, then that is good. And yes as bikers we risk our lives not just our cars. Maybe only commuter bikers should vote on this one . I am sure a bikers' strike will be noticed more than all the dead bodies who just get buried . ''"4 wheels move the body,'' ''2 wheels move the soul"''

Tertius The comment about getting a life was not intended to be personal to you, it was intended for those who think building a bridge will get people to use it. Drive along the R300 and watch how many walk across the bridge and how many cross the road A new R5 million bridge was built so that people can get from Langa across Vanguard Drive to the Bonteheuwel day hospital. It is not used, people are being killed under it. They could rather have built a new hospital.

Would it not have been cheaper to put subways UNDER the road rather than building bridges?

It was one of my suggestions earlier

Ps before someone tells me to get a life , let me just clarify I do mean a PEACEFUL strike, it goes without saying that I didn't mean we should in any way be violent. But every day when I ride to town I am amazed at the average pedestrian's complete and utter ignorance about crossing roads. Every day on my bike I watch pedestrians walk up to a set of traffic lights, then peer mysteriously into the sea of stopped vehicles and then start to walk across the road. This happens wihtout fail. I have never understood what exactly they are looking for, and based on what clue they actually start walking. Never have I seen them watch the opposite traffic light to see if they are green then ours will remain red provided you watch the other traffic light and if it turns orange , then run to the other side. If the peaceful protest on the NI can bring attention to this huge problem maybe the politicians will promise to educate the masses. Just like the AIDS and the Know your Rights campaigns , there should be Know your traffic lights rules and Don't Jaywalk campaings to educate people about the terrible carnage to our pedestrians. They should also be shown how to judge a vehicle 's speed if they are going to jaywalk . I am sure that the average jaywalker would think twice if they had the true stats about how many pedestrians are slaughtered crossing our roads. And that is why I applause anyone willing to go and make a stand , esp as other people's irresponsible behaviour puts us as bikers' lives at risk . Just outside Stellenbosch at the Kayamandi settlement one of my best friends died when an unknown pedestrian ran across the road , and a client was brain damaged for the same reason at the same place. I know many many bikers who were injured hitting pedestrians : Nic (on a BMW GS1200 )who owns the carpet weaving place at the Waterfront and Spier came off on the N2 at Khaelitsha. A friend from the bikers church on the R300 etc etc. And it is preventable. ''"4 wheels move the body,'' ''2 wheels move the soul"''

ps you will note that in my previous post I didn't say to cross the road when the green man is flashing, as I have learnt that that spells certain death . The average motor vehichle ( car or bike) completely ignores a green man flashing for pedestrians and will mow you over when you attempt to cross. In the city centre it is actually safer to wait for the green man to stop flashing, so the majority of cars have left the 'stable' of the traffic light and then make a run for it in between the few stragglers that drive through later, always keeping an eye out for killer cars and the opposite side's traffic lights. At least once a week I watch foreigners being mystified and petrified by our traffic light system , and I often help them too. I also help the local pedestrians every day by revving my bike ( which I enjoy anyway )and moving forward when I see that the lights are about to change to green for me. This then alerts the pedestrians to know that they must stay on their side of the road , and they always listen quite happily. This is Africa after all !! :) ''"4 wheels move the body,'' ''2 wheels move the soul"''

Thanks for all of the positive comments from everyone - i think now we are definetly on the right track. Let me say that Buzz has been in touch with all of the authorities - most of them do not dignify his mails and requests with a response. - He is currently in the porcess of mailing the mayor to try and get comment from her. Let me also reiterate that the traffic cops where extremely friendly to us as we stood on the road - At no time did we endanger anybody -and in actual fact we had lost of smiles from many people driving past. When we saw pedestrians walking towards the road - we simply pointed to the bridge - they then crossed at the bridge. Let me also clarify something - the pedestrians crossing the road where we had stopped were climbing over the offramp to century city - at the top of their climb they are no more than 50 - 60 meters from the road bridge going onto century boulevard. This clearly indicates a complete lack of understanding of the danger that they put themselves into - and the motorists that collide with them. I have just viewed the horrendous video that was posted under the heading of Why I dont like twisties - this clearly shows that bikers can be idiots as well - do we accept it because they are bikers - no we dont - we look at it and learn from it - Charles commment - that we learn to ride within our abilities hits it in one. What is my point - i dont know - but i do know that we need to stop these people - before more people get hurt. I will notify of any upcoming action.

Thanks Steve, I too have posted a comment on the twisties thread. Please keep us posted on developments and I will watch the Google Calendar to see if I see anything there :)

How many people stop for pedestrians when they approach a `zebra` crossing? Very few people! By law pedestrians have `right of way` on MOST roads and it doesn't have to be marked as an official pedestrian crossing. Frankly most people don't give a flying stuff about people crossing a road! I know the N1 is a different story but it starts with that attitude towards pedestrians on suburban roads. We mostly regard pedestrians as an annoyance on the road where THEY have more right to be on . Regards, Corné

The Vienna convention notes that Pedestrians will be, at times, required to cross public roads and that when they are in the act of doing so, that vehicular traffic should allow them right of way (in other words stop). However, it does also note that where traffic signals, such as crossings or lights, allow for pedestrian traffic, that these should be used. It does not state that pedestrians have more right to be on the road than the Motor vehicles the roads were built for. That is my understanding of the convention, as I deduced from my limited grasp of the English language. It would appear that South Africa roads regulatory bodies have, where possible, aligned themselves with this convention - again, this is only what I could deduce based on my own, limited understanding.

http://www.arrivealive.co.za/pages.aspx?i=822 Read point 6 under: Duties of pedestrians 6) A pedestrian may cross a public road only at a pedestrian crossing or an intersection or at a distance further than 50 metres from such pedestrian crossing or intersection. Regards, Corné

Corne, Sure, but remember - there are far more than just one rule governing pedestrian behaviour: Pedestrian's right of way in pedestrian crossing: 3) No pedestrian shall suddenly enter a pedestrian crossing and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield. Duties of pedestrians 3) No pedestrian shall cross a public road without satisfying himself or herself that the roadway is sufficiently free from oncoming traffic to permit him or her to cross the road in safety. 5) No pedestrian on a public road shall conduct himself or herself in such a manner as to or as is likely to constitute a source of danger to himself or herself or to other traffic which is or may be on such road. Special provisions relating to freeways 2) No person shall – (a) be on a freeway on foot except - (i) within an area reserved for the stopping or parking of vehicles by an appropriate road traffic sign; (ii) for a cause beyond his or her control; or (iii) in the case of any person performing service in the Citizen Force as contemplated in section 21 of the Defence Act, 1957 (Act No. 44 of 1957), between the junction of an offramp and the junction of an on-ramp on the left-hand side of the roadway, unless a prescribed road traffic sign forbids the presence of such person on such freeway or junction; (c) stop a vehicle on a freeway except- (i) in compliance with a road traffic sign or a direction given by a traffic officer; (ii) within an area reserved for the stopping or parking of vehicles by an appropriate road traffic sign; (iii) for any cause beyond his or her control; or (iv) in an area referred to in paragraph (a)(iii) for the purpose of allowing persons so performing service there to board or alight from such vehicle; (d) give a hand signal when driving a motor vehicle on a freeway except for a cause beyond his or her control.

Motorcycle Accident Cause Factors http://www.arrivealive.co.za/pages.aspx?i=2279

Although I've read the Hurt study before, it's interesting to note that (although the statistics are probably no longer accurate) it was published the year I was born and still has an overwhelming truth to it. What has been done in the more than two and a half decades to better the situation? What form of compulsory rider training was introduced? What elevated testing levels or more stringent screenings were introduced as rider testing requirements? None - and that's just to start on the rider responsibility - nevermind the quagmire that remains in the other areas referenced.

England has the Pelican crossing. This is basically a Zebra crossing with lights on either side of the road. When the lights of a pelican crossing are flashing, then if there's a pedestrian approaching the crossing, the pedestrian has right of way. When the lights are NOT flashing, it simply becomes a zebra crossing which means vehicles yield to persons on the crossing or point 3 above in Shaded's coment. STARCOM SOUTH AFRICA - DEALER AND DISTRIBUTOR LONGWAY MOTO - Motorcycle Tours and Rentals 021-554-3573 Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadsides, loudly p

Just heard on the radio a motorcyclist passed away near Badenpowl (spelling?) after hitting a COW !! RIP and condolences to the family.

With regards to me mentioning that I have protection: if I'm attacked I will defend myself if possible. I did not say I'm swinging a gun or sword around for anyone to see. I believe you get more done by speaking to people in a decent way. I'm glad for the debate this is causing, thanks to all participants.

Aww man, I wanted to come brandish a traditional weapon with you. spoil my fun. Seriously though - update the calendar so we can see when you're planning on being there and make an effort to join you :)

I wasn't planning to be there until literally 30 min before, so calendar entry would have been useless.

Did an impromptu stop again this afternoon, and another biker stopped to enquire, saying he sees me there often :-) Officer Sinclair on motorcycle also stopped, I expressed my thanks to him for stopping and preventing them from crossing. We have a date Friday morning, anytime between 8 and 9. I might be there earlier. You don't have to be there for an hour, 10 minutes is also fine.