Archive of BMW Motorrad Club Cape (2006 - 2019)

Well I'm glad you got that off your chest...:wink: Andy1200 Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly!!!

When I was riding a Vespa, I was 'afraid' of bikers, so I avoided eye contact or looking at their bikes for fear they would ridicule me. I felt as though they would not relate to a scooter rider, and in truth, I did not feel like a biker. I think it is only when you feel the exhilaration of riding a bike that you suddenly feel the need to share the fun and acknowledge others. That may explain why HD's don't greet as a rule...

Andy: I place too much value on friendliness, I guess! Maybe it has to do with my upbringing. :P An American friend of mine responded to my livejournal in the following manner - what I thought was a rather insightful response, which also ties in with what Charles said about riding a Vespa: "This is my psychological guess to it all: It's all based on whether they are introverted or extroverted. Introverted people do anything to avoid eye contact from strangers, and will pretend that they didn't see a stranger greet them, not because they're rude, but because they're out of their comfort zone. An extroverted person LOVES people and will jump on any greeting at all. Introverted people AS A RULE (note, there are exceptions) tend to make far less money than extroverted people. They tend to drive cheaper vehicles because they cannot afford anything nicer. Some introverts are even scared of cars. Extroverted people AS A RULE (note, there are exceptions) tend to do much better financially in life, especially if they are good-looking as well. Extroverts can afford Expensive Name-Brands. So! Knowing this... --Scooters: Cheap, slowish method of transportation. A bit geeky. My guess is that mostly introverts would choose a scooter as a form of transportation, so they would not return your greeting, ever. --Harleys: Not very cheap, but as you noted, often driven by people 'disdaining all other forms of transport'. Also driven by older people hitting a mid-life crisis. My guess is that people who drive Harleys are often middle-of-the-scale, but leaning towards being introverts, and channel their social frustrations into trying to be 'part of a group'. If you're not a Harley Rider yourself, it's unlikely they'll greet you back...you're a square, a 'mundane'. Some older guys will wave back if you're a pretty single woman though. --BMW drivers. Are mostly extroverts (again, there are always exceptions)! They are on a very expensive bike, thus, showing off their status in life. Most likely many of them earn a lot of money and they got that way by being total people persons, making connections and collecting people in their lives. Greeting a stranger comes naturally to them, and they are happy you noticed them and their snazzy bike. --Street/Racing bikes: Are going to be a mix of extroverts and introverts. My friend Jonathan is a huge introvert and got a street bike for fun. I've also known extroverts to drive them as well. So you're going to get a nice mix of introverts and extroverts driving these bikes, thus affecting your greeting rate accordingly. And there you have! It's not really rudeness...it all boils down to whether a person is an introvert or extrovert, which often extends to their choice in the sort of bike they ride."

I'm not sure if I agree completely to the categorizing according to income though - there are lots of rich people in town riding scooters.

I'm not sure I support the opinion. I see where it's coming from, but for example, most people that we see in town on scooters (the "rich" people you refer to), have money and are doing it to be part of their in-crowd cafe-vida & friends - who are all extroverts. They may be afraid as Charles says - which I can understand, but when the putz looks me in the eye - and is just "too cool for school" so he doesn't greet - I feel like parking my front tyre on that excuse for a helmet - I don't care how "Metro" he's dressed.

Sadly, many of them prefer to be dressed metro, and not wear gear and only a piepie pot helmet to show off their Gucci shades and Diesel shirt... not to mention those white Lacoste shoes.

I really enjoy my scooter and was happily riding it till NOW....I don't have any white Lacoste shoes to go with my pink shirt.:-( Ag nee ...maybe that is why the Gs and KTM riders don't greet when I pass them in traffic.:-)

I never greet scooters, quads and KTM's ;-) I just hoot for them to get out of my way! Corné Kloppers http://www.bikepics.com/members/pantsula/07f650gs/ 0849130391 ckloppers@gmail.com

Maybe you truly do belong in law-less "Down-Under" with the sheep Corne :P

he he ;-) spot on mate! Corné Kloppers http://www.bikepics.com/members/pantsula/07f650gs/ 0849130391 ckloppers@gmail.com

hey! wie's jou mate! :P

Scooter riders probably don't look at other bikers, cause generally bikers look down on/ or with disdain to scooter riders. And it's one thing I can't stand. I lived on a Vespa for 5 years (wind, rain or shine) i did more miles and faced harsher conditions than most bikers. That alone made me more of a 'biker' than most, yet the guys on big bikes always seem to ridicule scooter riders... but hell, if it gets cloudy or a little cold they're the first people to jump in a car.

There seems to be a misperception on introverts vs extroverts. In short, it is about where you get your energy. Introverts can be extremely outgoing, jolly and friendly and socially regarded as “extroverts” due to their behaviour. This doesn’t mean that they are in fact extroverts. You cannot really “see” an extrovert or an introvert by conversing with them or judging their behaviour in crowds (or on bikes). As I said, it is all about your energy source. Introverts have an internal energy source i.e. they spend time on their own to recharge. Extroverts on the other hand get their energy from others. It energises them to be with others and they sometimes battle to be on their own. With this there is a wide variety of other psychological factors that needs to be considered when thinking about a person’s preference to be alone vs. to be with people. I’ll stop now… :)

Oh dear! TvN we are all so fond of you but you really are opening a can of worms on THIS forum!!! You have also totally confused me now! How do you classify someone who wears pink shirts, rides a 1200GS with pink accessories, gift wraps presents in pink glitter paper AND rides a motor scooter? Should I wave to this person? ''The world needs dreamers that DO!''

TvN - well said :)

Pete, as soon as I can get my thoughts together about "this person" I will let you know...think it might take a while! Those flowers for the women's workshop day completely stuffed around with my hypotheses!

You don't classify a person like this. You don't wave. You run. You run for your life and hide in the hills. ;)

I have a problem with putting people in boxes. We are all individuals with some similar habits that can confuse even an ardent psychologist or shrink or whatever you call them. I guess I can judge the inability or lack of interest to greet other bikers since I ride a PGO scooter, the RT and have just sold my Harley (hell I miss it). Not greeting other bikers does have some link to the bike you ride, but it is mostly the rider self because in today’s world people are so self-centred and have no time for others. My experience with the Harley AND the RT is that very few other brand bikers respond to a wave. Harley riders often don’t greet other bikers since these bikers are always busy running Harleys down and passing ill-informed sarcastic remarks which is mostly because of jealousy (I experienced that many a time).With sports bikes I ascribe it to a false feeling of superiority as well as the fact that they have to concentrate so hard on staying alive because of the speed they travel at that they either don’t see the wave or are too scared to take a hand off the bars. With the RT I also think that jealousy creeps into somewhere. “See you ride one of those overpriced German Bikes” Shame!! For traffic and economy there is very little to beat a good scooter and I don’t understand why some bikers look down on them – again a false sense of superiority? What we need to realise is that no matter what we ride, we are bikers that enjoy 2-wheels, fresh air in our faces and the smells of the countryside!!!. Lekker. Lobola, the profile of the average Harley rider as per the latest research describes them as successful, affluent and early 30’s. I don’t know if that is middleaged? Finally, I must agree with you that friendliness is important and we need a lot more of that in this beautiful country of ours. Next time you get into a lift full of people, greet them and see what happens. Ride Safe

From my own experience on a scooter - many scooter commuters are not doing it for the fun of it. They have no other means, or they are saving petrol. The thing is slow and noisy and small, and they get wet when it rains. Many of them are not having fun and so cannot relate to what we feel as we slip past and wave happily at everybody...

Wow, a lot of interesting input from everyone! NOTE: My second post was not my own words - I was quoting someone from the USA who responded to my post elsewhere. I don't agree with everything she said but I can understand where she's coming from. So Outop don't worry, I'm not putting anyone in boxes in terms of age/income. :) Just for interests' sake, how did you experience greeting on a harley? Did you greet people, and what were their reactions, if any? TvN: I agree with Shaded - well said! I also understand this to be the definition of introverts and extroverts (maybe my friend from the states doesn't know this).

I have always greeted other bikers even in the 60's on my BSA Bantam and still do it today as does Pat on the pillion. If another biker chooses to ignore me, he / she is the loser not me. I am a firm believer of unity amongst bikers, but often feel that I am a lone voice in the wilderness. One future event that we must all try to support is the peacefull 5c toll road run planned for the 24th Sep since the authorities do not want to listen to reason and reduce toll fees for bikers. The idea is that each bike pays the toll in 5c pieces. We are being ripped off! Ride Safe

Last year I went on a solo trip up to Lesotho and happened to stop over at the Meerkat Rally at Gariep dam. On the Sunday when I left I was having breakfast at the only cafe open when a bunch of Suzuki, Kawasaki and Honda riders came in for breakfast. I was asked if the "Draadkameel" (my 1150GS) outside the door was mine to which I answered yes. They then sat down and not only insisted that I ride with them to Bloem, but also found me a place to stay and took me to the street drags that happen in the back streets of Bloem on a Sunday night. We must be careful to generalise or to put people in Boxes. Sometimes I greet people other times I don't.... I also have quite a few Friends that belong to the Massey Ferguson racing club AKA HD riders and some of them will not ride with another bike in tow....I suppose at the end of the day we are all individuals and its up to us to accept each other for the way we are. Andy1200 Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly!!!

I've also found this very interesting and Mandy and I have discussed it a lot. As a rule we try to greet all bikers (whatever they are riding), as well as other road users. We have found that one of the most amazing things about biking is that most road users (especially bikers)are incredibly friendly and will wave or nod back and make a point of stopping and talking to you at service stations or lay-by's, or even if you stop for a rest at the side of the road. There are however a minority of mindless idiots who think they can ride you off the road, tailgate you, or otherwise intimidate you. We try to just keep out of their way and let them get on with it somewhere else. I don't believe these people belong to any particular caste or social group - they're just selfish, inconsiderate individuals. I must agree though that Hardley Ferguson riders hardley ever wave - must be looking back at what they're towing behind their tractors.

Methinks we are taking ourselves/them a wee bit too seriously.:-) I know when I am on my scooter and see a bike ahead in the distance and ride just to catch up so as to be able to greet him/her, when I pass and wave they NEVER return the greeting. Is it because I am always overtaking introverts???:-)

Hey Neil...Maybe its because of the speed you are doing when you overtake them??? :wink: Andy1200 Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly!!!

I always greet a fellow 2 wheeled traveller, esp scooters piloted by pretty girls.[dirty old man]. But seriously I always wave or at least nod if it is not safe to take one hand off the bars. if i get a reply great, if not so what. Re the HD riders, you must understand that taking one hand off the handle bars at speeds in excess of 15kph could lead to a serious tank slapper. :)

Oh boy! I can't resist this meaty issue, and may have come up with a unique way to make life easier. I remember those spring loaded wavy hands that you used to stick to the back window of your car in the 80's!! I'm going to find one and attach it to the handlebar of my GS - Neil, I'm sure they came in dayglo pink, so you're catered for. When I ride, this hand will wave to "everybody" and life will be simple again. Maybe ADDIS can run off a batch for us, and we can supplement club funds. Maybe it's the wheel size that gives certain scooter riders an inferiority complex - this would also account for the overdeveloped superiority complex of Harley riders as well! Me, I just quiertly introvert and think about the next time I wear my floral pink slip-slops on the beach. Smile, it keeps "them" guessing what you are thinking!! Buddy Out there where we all belong.

Having experienced almost all of the above first hand, does this make me a sucker for punishment or optimistic? I nod or wave at just about anything I can find an excuse to nod or wave at - if he / she / they / it greets me back - then that's just dandy. If he / she / it doesn't greet me - that's okay - I'll just nod or wave at the next one.

Do you wave at animals? I do. My kids think I'm a bit dilly... I also find myself waving in acknowledgment of a greeting by a pedestrian or motorist, only to discover that what I thought was the beginning of a wave was just him bringing his finger to his nose for some digging :o

In the words from the happy feet movie "Just smile and wave boys; just smile and wave"

Today I decided to travel incognito, I did not wear anything pink or with BMW logo on it, AND went on my scooter! This O readers is what transpired: I stopped at the robots (because they were red :-) ), cnr Koeberg rd & Milnerton Medi-Clinic. Whilst stopped at said robots, an Iceberg 650GS pulled up (I know it wasn't Corné, as he stopped :-) ), the gentleman was extremely well dressed with a BMW Boulder jacket...new, BMW gloves...new, BMW Santiago boots...new, as clean/cleaner than Cheesy's boots!!!!:-) This gentleman must, I'm sure, have just come from Milnerton Medi-Clinic, with a rather serious ailment...rigor mortis of the neck...he was UTTERLY unable to turn his head to his left and look at me or even greet me. Perhaps he was a Harley rider who had fallen on hard times, and had, unfortunately, to down scale to a 650GS. We duly pulled away...he accelerated hard to get me behind him, to avoid having to eye this 3rd class biking citizen. Dear riders/readers, please be gracious to us humble scooter citizens...it's rough enough out there with all the taxi drivers. A little smile/wave will go a long way in our day :-):-)

Should this research paper(previous post) have have brightened your day , you may brighten mine @ the next club meeting.:-) Ps. the afore mentioned event actually took place as described,and if it was you ....NO hard feelings whatsoever, only:-):-)

Hahahaha! Classic...

I pulled over the other night for a poor guy on a scooter who looked scared out of his wits - he was standing in the middle island where the N2 becomes the M3 into town - I made a point of turning around and coming back to make sure the guy was okay, that someone was on their way for him and to check if he needed any assistance before I left - so I think I've done my deed for the little people on Scooters :) ! He assured me someone was on the way, that he was fine and that it was only the drive belt that had given up the ghost. I offered to hang around, but he insisted that it really wasn't neccessary. So Mr Terry - some of us do try to be nice to scooters!

Thank you, O, thank you Shaded.:-) I was incognito again today ...N T R. On the way back from the quarry...(the Rony's Recharge visit:-)) I pulled over for a super bike who was having problems on the West coast road and after listening to his problem offered him a tow in to Table View...he declined, I even promised to go slow:-)the word must have gotten out!

Holy cow, if we can wave as much as we type we will never get our hands on the bars ever again. I am a manic frenetic and habitual waver to one and all, hell I will even slide in next to a car in the fast lane at 140, knock on the window and wave. I wave when I wheelie, when I get off the bike I am still waving and I have to put my hands in my pockets. Harley riders cant wave, they are too scared to take their hands of the handlebars. Doesnt matter what I am riding I wave, greet ,spread the love ,its cool to be friendly. Smile and wave people!!! I RIDE THEREFORE I AM!

Hi from Mauritius No biking alas :-( Since I got the f800s I noticed that BMW riders usually don't greet me any more. Especially if they are on a GS. ?Don't inderstand why? On one trip along the coast road, not one GS rider out of 3 greeted me, but 5 out of 8 Japanese sport bike riders did. Maybe I should concentrate on my riding more... :-) Weird though.

Hi Frank, enjoy your stay, yes Jane on her round Lesotho trip had the same comment re the GS riders.....going bike blind. Perhaps I'll ride my scooter this week-end as ....Wave Rider... and photograph all the Gs riders who don't wave to me and post on Monday!:-) For penance they can spend 2 hrs on a Saturday morning riding a yellow or pink scooter near one of the BMW or Harley dealers.:-):-)

BMWs might not go out of their way to wave because your bike is not immediately recognizable as a BMW (from a distance). That may also explain why the Jap bikes ''do'' wave. It will take a while and more 800s on the road before people realize that BMW is not equivalent to Boxer anymore.

Hi Charles Yes, you may be right, but is that an excuse? I might not always greet HD riders because experience has taught me that it seldom provokes a response. (Of course it may also be that they have to hold on really tight so that the vibrations do not shake them off) :-) Even if my bike looks like tupperware, do BMW riders not greet the riders of other makes? :-p Most sport bikes tear through Marine Drive a lot fater than I do, but the majority manage a nod...

yaaaawwwwnnn.... this thread is getting boring :P wave if you want to... see it as your good deed for the day... if you get a wave/nod back great! if you don't get a wave/nod back and you feel upset about it then you are probably one of those people that expect something back when doing a good deed. SMACK!! Don't always expect something back ;-) Corné Kloppers http://www.bikepics.com/members/pantsula/07f650gs/ 0849130391 ckloppers@gmail.com

Corné, it's not that - these kinds of communication just comprise an important part of the system of (in this case physical) communicative social codes and signifiers (which, unfortunately, reciprocation tends to play a major role in) that a healthy society/culture is built on. Different individuals represent different facets of a bigger language of signification which results in frequent miscommunication - we are just discussing this phenomenon. The social mix is not as homogenous as I had first thought it to be - and would probably like it to be, for love and kindness' sake. This is my opinion only, and I'm not forcing it on anyone. :)

Lobola, I am intoxicated by the exuberance of your verbosity. However, even if not intoxicated, must agree with your sentiments. Ride Safe

Hey Shaded, please ask yourbetter half to speak simple English...I got lost between the communicative social codes and signifiers and bigger language of signification :wink: I hope that she speaks simple English to you...It must be that student coming out!!! :wink: Andy1200 Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly!!!

Andy1200, Don't worry - I think you got the jist of the message even if the words were a little higher grade (don't worry - I often find myself using Wikipedia or a good old dictionary to figure some of it out :) )

Hahaha, sorry guys - blame UCT! I did this hectic course on semiology... which is where the signifiers etc comes from... I've been brainwashed. This is the grade of English they require us to write essays in and it's actually the way my lecturers speak. Thanks for the agreement, Outop - I didn't mean to be verbose, honestly! haha Andy - in a nutshell: we are part of a bigger picture that involves people's actions towards each other, and these actions (or lack of them) conveys a meaning, which everyone has their own pre-programmed assumptions about. This makes it a non-verbal language that we speak to each other all the time, without knowing it. Make more sense? - It is good for the soul to see the sun. -

Hi Lobola I had not thought of that (the semiology). What I can say though is this: '''''Next time you wave, please use all your fingers''''' :beer:

Lobola, a tip... one of the most common MALE signifiers..verbal as well as motional ie. with the hands is to do/say nothing..this is commonly misunderstood by the female of the species...was this trait mentioned in the hollowed halls or lecture rooms of UCT?:-)

Today I pulled up alongside a scooter whilst on my bike...He invited me to engage in a dice after recovering from shock..... he never had a 1200GS greet before.:-)

Neil: I could go into a long discussion on the topic, I could even mail you my essay - but that would possibly end in veering terribly far off topic! - It is good for the soul to see the sun. -