Archive of BMW Motorrad Club Cape (2006 - 2019)

I have also experienced this on my 2011 GSA

Its caught me wanting around a slow corner once.

Must admit only stalled it once though

Keep us posted

Wayne

We have solved a couple of these problems. Has the settings been changed

Please contact Shane @ Atlantic Motorrad

021 4174760

I had a misfire before on my GSA, but was worse than you are describing. Mine was running really bad and using much more fuel. It turned out to be the Throttle position switch located on the Left Throttle body. If you have a mate with a GSA, it might be worth swopping the part over to see what happens.

Cheers

If you mess with the throttle position sensor you may need to re-tune the engine. Putting your buddies throttle-body on may or may not improve the running of the bike, depending on luck - if you are lucky his settings are close enough to what yours need to be to be tuned.  However, if you do tune the bike and it runs fine you may have found the problem.

It could also be that your bike is just idling too slow, so it is not able to take up a quick injection of fuel.  Maybe up the idle a bit (or fit one of those resistors to your air intake temperature sensor cable).

If Shane at Atlantic can't diagnose it in 15min then ask the question again, otherwise let us know what the problem was!

Take the bike to Atlantic and ask him to have a look at it.  I'm sure he'll have an answer for you within 5 min, even if it's "Let me put it on the computer for you sir and I'll give you a call".  You can call him on (021) 4174769.

Let's hope it's something as simple as “Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle.” (Apologies for stealing your line Tarryn  )

Just an update, I took my bike back to Hamman Motorrad last week, Johan was very helpful and gave it a check-up, he says the cold start noise is from the pulley belt and cannot be tensioned on the new DOHC motor, it is however unrelated to the 'misfire' issue, not much can be done about the noise.

On that note, Johan did a MOSS update however the 'misfire' symptom is still present. It is going back on Monday for further investigation, I will report back with an update.

Does anyone here own a 2011 ADV (or possibly a standard GS) - does it make this noise in the mornings and do you experience any of this 'misfire' (or possibly a pre-ignition) symptom?

Come ride mine sometime and compare. (2011ADV )

Wayne

My 2011 GSA also have a rattle when I start the bike in morning and it's on the side stand. When I start the bike on the centre stand it doesn't chatter.

What fuel are you using and do you have an aftermarket air filter on the bike?

Heya Wayne, I may just do that thnx

Hi Corne, I am going to try this tonight, I have thought of leaving my bike on the centrestand overnight, could be interesting if it doesn't make that noise :-o

I use unleaded fuel and the bike is stock standard.

thnx
Kevin 

I always park on the centre stand.  Otherwise oil pools in the cylinder and burns off when I start.  Also, the bike should not run for extended periods on the stand (like when warming up in the morning).  The engine is designed to run upright.

Kevin,

If Wayne has no objection we could take three bikes and go ride somewhere to give you ample time to try two different bikes.

-or- we could just take one of our new bikes and ride it together.

My invitation stands.

Chris Hamman

Anytime , I always keen.

Wayne

Hi guys, it has been 2 months since my last post on this issue. I have purposely left it awhile so that I can see if things get better after the bike is better run in. I now have 9800kms on the clock of my 2011 R1200GSA. Despite that this pre-ignition condition has improved since the last checkup, ie. it has not stalled, it still does the occasional shudder on a throttle blip. This may be normal with the new DOHC motor however it has reached a point where the irritation has caused me to want to sell the bike. So, if anyone is interested in a full house (with BMW topbox and panniers) 2011 1200GSA please contact me.

Kevin
kevin@pixelsandbits.co.za

Hi Kevin,

I find it amazing how "some" bikes just seem to be so different from others, and produce the weirdest symptoms, where others don't. I feel for you dude, but unfortunately have no skills to even OFFER you a suggestion. I'm a 4 week old 1200 Adventure owner (2nd hand) and hope like hell mine doesn't start acting up like this one.

However, in saything all this, I'm also astounded that BMW feel this is "normal".

Wishing you luck with this, possibly a letter to BMW head Office, or even Germany might be needed.

Alan

Just an update on this pre-ignition issue. I have requested that this be escalated to BMW HO for their response. I have uploaded a video clip where it can be clearly heard how the motor respond to a throttle blip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty4fGRF86gc&feature=youtu.be

I have done the same test with my 2011 GSA

http://youtu.be/fTb4LAwn1i0

something is not right with your bike, i don't think its got anything to do with "bliping". 

It must be something else and I'm with you  BMW need to find the issue and resolve it or give you another bike ;)

Good luck!

Corné from Tasmania

I don't really blip while riding but my 2009 or 2011 GSA have never stalled on me.

I thought blipping was for wankers.  Then I started using it when changing down and found it made the change go smoother (because the engine and gearbox were running at similar speeds) - even while using the clutch.

Then I realized that the blipping allows you to change down without clutching at all.  Now the clutch has become a second-class citizen for gear changes, and only gets used for slow riding, pullaways and occasional gear changes from first or into overdrive.

And since starting on the trials bike I don't think I could ride without blipping - sometimes that 2-stroke wants and needs a blip.  However, the blipping the the video seems a bit extreme to me, but then I ride an 1150 so have no basis for comparison.

I'm a blipper Charles...you can call me a wanker if you like but now your changing without your clutch!

Hi Kevin, you must be frustrated by now...I have only experienced a near stall when pulling away at lights in 42 degrees.

I think whats happening is when you blip the throttle the computer is telling the fuel managment system to supply juice and then you shut the air supply off and the left cylinder is too rich and stutters.

Dont sell the bike...give bigger blips.

You're no wanker - you're a Badger

I have always blipped the throttle when changing down for the reasons described by Charles. The BMW gearbox does not contain synchromesch rings, it is what is commonly known as a crash box. When changing up I pause for a split second to give the engine and box time to equalise rpm.

I must admit that the twin cam gearbox is the best I have experienced on any BMW.

As for stalling and noises, my twin cam is fault free.

Just another update. I have had my bike back to Hamman Motorrad for a 10 000km service where, amongst other, the "software was updated". The matter was escalated to HO where they say "there is nothing wrong with my bike". The pre-ignition (aka detonation) has improved somewhat, however now my fuel consumption is much higher and power is down. The HUD indicator now displays an average of 6.5l/100km’s, it was 5.9l/100km's before. I did 429km’s (with 9km’s remaining) on a full tank. My second tank went onto reserve at 389km’s and indicated 55km’s remaining. While riding very conservatively on my 3rd tank I went onto reserve at around 440km's with 43km's remaining. I could get almost 600km’s on a tank previously. Hamman Motorrad are investigating and checking out their loan bike as it has the same pre-ignition/detonation issue and will provide me with feedback.

6.5l/100km

Another update. On the 22 of May my bike went in and had the cam chain tensioners replaced. This was because the cam allignment kept changing and these tensioners are common between the 4 cams so they suspected the tensioners. Nonetheless the misfire/pre-ignition/detonation problem persists. To the point where again today when it stalled on me I was almost taken out by the vehicle behind me. 

Below is a video clip where I can demonstrate to you what happens if I twist the throttle very slightly off idle. I was able to replicate this a few times to some colleagues at work. I did turn the ignition off and on to reset the computer and it still behaved the same. Listen carefully to the engine idle while watching the rev counter, you will hear the erratic idle and pre-ignition (and ping) and then it stalled. I did not change the throttle position nor touch any switches. I don't know if this is related to the same issue as when I blip the throttle before I engage gear but it's not right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-8ELUYGie4&feature=youtu.be

Kevin
R1200GS-WP

Kevin why don't you take the bike to Superbike Solutions in Somerset West and see if the can find anything while running it on the dyna?  They've done quite a bit of analysis on the 1200 pinking problem.

Hi Pete, if the bike wasn't still under warranty I would take it to Superbike Solutions in a heartbeat, however as it is only 6 months old and has been problematic since day 1 I feel BMW must sort it out. I had hoped that by now that it would be sorted though

EDIT: I gave this more thought I may just contact them, I may just need a report for the NCC

Some more feedback,

I just returned from Donford Motorrad, BMW HO requested I take my bike there for an inspection. Neil Berry was kind enough to loan me a 2012 GSA while they inspect mine. I can report back the following,

1. The average fuel consumption indicated on the Donford GSA is 5.9l/100km this is what mine was before the new software was loaded it is now 6.6l/100km

2. The Donford GSA has more power, at least my butt dyno tells me that

3. The Donford GSA also pings when riding at 4500rpm (+/- 125km/h) and I accelerate quickly

4. The Donford GSA also detonates/pre-ignites/knocks/pings (not sure what it is?) when at idle and the throttle is blipped

5. The Donford GSA also idles erratically and stalls when the throttle is slightly opened (+/- 1%)

Video of the Donford GSA available below.

Idle with throttle at +/- 1% open

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XXvWUcJH5w&feature=youtu.be

Idle again, at +/- 1% throttle, after switching ignition off and on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph6ea-npTXw&feature=youtu.be

Blipping the throttle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vccgCn68ZOM

So, is this an issue with all DOHC R1200GS Adventures, in SA only? If so, why is this the case? If this is “by design” and “normal” behaviour I would like BMW to confirm this in writing and indicate there will be no long term damage as a result.

I will continue to hound them, even if it means doing so through public forums and social media and the NCC. I have been informed by too many other riders in SA that have/are also experiencing this and BMW fail to come up with a solution or just refuse to do anything about it. They are also told by BMW "we are not aware of any other cases like this".

I will update this thread when I have more information.
If you are also experiencing these symptoms please let me know.

Hi Kevin, I bought my twin cam from Donford and as mentioned previously find it to be fault free.  Can I be the only one?

Hi Kevin

You are welcome to come visit me in D'Ville and compare your bike with mine. Also experiencing similar pinking issues, they all do this my previous 30 year anniversary also did this. Was escalated to BMW SA where it was found that its normal to pink in certain conditions" before the knock sensor kicks in" I have lived with my bike with this condition with the promise that I will install a PC to sort out the roughness and pinking. I still have to do this though, bike is still under warranty but as PC is plug and play and servicing is done once a year....

I've done the same test this morning on a cold start.

http://youtu.be/82axTlsx5qI

I don't experience this issue.

Could it be the type of fuel in SA? I always put Catlex 98 Octance in my bike.

This is probably a silly assertion but I've noticed that you always to these tests with your high beam (brights) on. Could it be the high beam drawing too much current and due to the low engine PRMs the bike stalls due to low voltage?

I would be keen to know the outcome of this, must be very frustrating! Good luck and keep us posted.

Corné from Tasmania.

Hi Corné, your ADV sounds sweet. I am convinced it is the fuel, maybe a combination of quality and mixture, maybe octane as well. I also did another cold start demo this morning, listen to the difference, I didn't blip the engine as I don't like doing that on a cold engine but listen to the idle (just off idle) from 3 minutes 10seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY8Vkaj3X3Y&feature=youtu.be

I suspected the lights as well, in this demo I had the brights off as well as the spots off.

I get my bike back today, hope it's sorted, I really hope so. Will report back later.

Kevin

Got my bike back from Donford, the verdict is "they have checked everything and find nothing wrong". They did say the one fuel injector was slightly out which they corrected but it hasn't made any difference. They have also "not been able to replicate these symptoms". 

The official response from BMW SA, would you accept this?

From: Dave.Poulton@bmw.co.za [mailto:Dave.Poulton@bmw.co.za]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 3:54 PM
To: Kevin Van Blerk - MWEB
Subject: BMW Motorrad Direct
Importance: High

Dear Mr Van Blerk

Thank you for your correspondence.

Your motorcycle was thoroughly tested by Donford Motorrad in order to establish whether any defects were present.

Various driving conditions were simulated during the test and your motorcycle performed flawlessly and line with the ‘character’ of the R 1200GSA.  

I trust that this evaluation serves to put you at ease regarding any concerns that you may have regarding the technical integrity of your motorcycle.

Rest assured of our best intentions at all times.

Kind regards

BMW (South Africa) (Pty) Ltd
Mr Dave Poulton
Technical Manager
BMW Motorrad South Africa

Dept Code: ZA-X-10
Cnr 16th & New Road, Midrand, 1685
P.O Box 2955, Pretoria 0001
Phone: +27-12-522-2047
Fax: 086-639-5407
Cell: +27-71-482-8579
mailto:Dave.Poulton@bmw.co.za
http://www.bmw-motorrad.co.za/

The response from Julian of Superbike Solutions, those of you that know him his reputation is highly regarded in his industry.

"This topic has been discussed more times then I can imagine, Goose knows all to well about this and has gone from BMWSA to BMW Germany and back again with no joy. First off the BMW dealers will "NOT" help you because they don't know any better full farking stop, so don't waste your time their attitude is, they all do it, it's normal.

BMW's are lean, lean and lean, no current and future software upgrades are going to help this issue because BMW has to comply with emission regulations. I have mentioned more then once that a Powercommander will remedy the situation, but it seems that the price of the PC scares the guys more than a truck driving over them 

This problem comes from as far back as the 1100GS and has become progressively worse as the emission regulations has become stricter. On the DOHC models this is especially bad because BMW has added an exhaust valve!!! "NOT" to give you better midrange but to comply with stricter noise regulation. Having an exhaust valve on a already very lean bike with very high EGT is making the problem twice as bad. When the exhaust valve is closed the hot air is being held inside the combustion and will only be released at around 3600 rpm and around 40%TP according to my tests.

This is a recipe for disaster of the long term and will eventually result in engine failure. Not only is the heat bad for the top end but also for the bottom.
I have seen boxers with blown big end bearings which no one can explain, but if you think of how hot this motor is running...... the oil is basically breaking down way before service intervals. Oil is there for lubrication and for "cooling" and with oil breaking down prematuley .....guess what, the big ends will fail.

In short every boxer motor needs the fuel map richened up ALOT!!! I see a Powercommander in your future, that's if BMW will let you fit one while your bike is still under warranty."

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=100479.new;topicseen#new

My response to BMW, I know you are reading this forum discussion, I will not give up. My motorcycle is dangerous in this state and hence I will not let it go, if someone gets hurt or killed because their motorcycle stalled on them I will never forgive myself for not pursuing this matter to the end. So, to the end it is. BMW have to recognise this issue and provide us with a solution. I have taken the matter to the NCC however I believe the real power lies in the people though, in us, the owners who ride these awesome motorcycles, if we stand together and make our voices heard they will listen, they have no choice but to listen, without us BMW are nothing! If you want to know what you can do, you can post your comments right here in this forum or you can send an email to customer.service@bmw.com

For those that know Goose of Wild Dog, who also experienced these issues and tried to get BMW to do something about it, this was his response.

THAT statement there matey is what it's all about.......... IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!!  I'm sorry to say that Saffers love bitching and moaning. but regardless of what their grieviences are..... they will never stand together and fight BMW as a group.

I tried... we managed to get quite a nice group together and Wrench was a total gentleman to check all our bikes.

BMW-SA is the problem.............  in the USA BMW allows Power Commanders to be fitted and the warranty remains intact - why - because their Constitution protects the consumer. If you buy a brand-new BMW, you don't even have to have it serviced at a Motorrad dealership - you may have it serviced at ANY dealership you like - might even be Yamaha........... and to rub salt into the wounds........ YOU CAN SERVICE YOUR OWN bike right from the start of the bikes purchase and they WILL NOT void the Warranty!!

We have a Consumer law in SA.......... but it's toothless at this stage.. and BMW-SA will laugh in your face - why? because they know we back down.... SAD but true.

The letter BMW sent you.... well ask them to give you a letter that states that if you have damage or engine failure that can be linked to the poor A/F settings and overheating/knocking problems with your bike..... that they will honour the warranty deal even after the 2-years..... THEY WON'T ........... I tried.......... during warranty - no issue as the bust engine goes back to Germany and they still get their fees paid for the labour. After the 2 year period... it's for THEIR cost!

nee boet............ if we can indeed get people to stick together, get some funds, get the Consumer Act/Law to back us... get it on social media/newspapers/tv........... maybe, just maybe BMW-SA will "try?" to sort it.....

The more BMW say that they don't know about the issue, don't find faults, have never heard about the issue .......... the more I keep asking the very valid question...

"If there was no problem/hassle etc. - WHY are there so many aftermarket products designed specifically to resolve these non-existent problems?" 

WRENCH can help you sort it. The man is a genius, has the knowledge, capability and equipment to resolve the issue......... 

I have an extract of an email sent to Mr. Steli Momos (National Aftersales Manager at BMW Motorrad) where a well know supplier of touring bike accessories in the Western Cape (identity witheld) also experienced these issues. This was discussed with Auto Atlantic Motorrad and Donford Motorrad. This is more evidence that all 3 BMW dealerships in the Western Cape are fully aware of this issue and still not preparred to do anything about it. If these dealerships will not recognise this issue and stand behind their customers then we have to do it alone.

"Dear Mr Momos
Some time has expired since our last conversation and correspondence with regard to the GSA’s matter and I received no response from yourself or Mr Neil Berry to the email sent to you both on 21st February.
The three days that Donford had my bike was as you would agree, not suitable to do a full spectrum test on the bike.
I wish to re-iterate the facts with regard to the vehicle and what issues brought me to the point where I had no alternative but to write to the CEO in Germany.
Please also note that if there was no issue – I would not be pursuing this matter for over a year, trying to get help and resolution to a problem that very obviously is a software issue with the bikes integrated ECU. This problem and very lean mixtures set for the European Union Standards (which should not be relevant to SA conditions) is what’s behind the problem, which BMW-SA are ignoring or perhaps not willing to resolve.
-     The bike started it’s “pinging” or should I refer to detonation issues before it’s 1000km service, when it was mentioned to Auto Atlantic.-     After the 1000km service we did a trip in the Cederberg during which time the pinging became so bad that we were seriously concerned that the engines were being damaged – this was again reported to Auto Atlantic and the bike taken back and left with them to check out the problem.-     A PUMA case was registered and we were told that we would have to wait for BMW-Germany to respond and advise – this turned out to be a white elephant.-     We had Dyno testing done in a controlled environment (for our own cost) that proved that the bike was running extremely lean and at coastal level only had a 92.8Hp output (for a 1200cc engine sold as a 105Hp – ridiculous)-     We were advised that Auto Atlantic had checked and downloaded the OBD results. We requested a copy of the results and it was point-blank refused – in fact we were not allowed to even see the results! (what was BMW hiding?)"

Copied from the discussion at WD

Quote from: Adventurer on Today at 07:09:16 PM

Hi Adventurer, I am going to let wrench loose on my bike yes, only to supply the data I need to make this public, I may be able to 'fix' the problem with my motorcycle with an aftermarket Power Commander but the problem then still remains, what about everyone else that still has this problem, there are hundreds if not thousands of other R1200GS owners in SA most do not even know their motorcycles have this issue, but the day may come when they experience a stall, and they may not be as lucky as I was they may not be able to recover from it, the results could be disastrous. I will re-iterate my mission, these motorcycles are dangerous, there is a problem with the fueling mixture on these motorcycles, in particular the DOHC models, it does not work in SA, and BMW know this, they have to provide us with a solution, it's really simple. I WILL NOT give up until this is done. Others have also brought this to the attention of BMW SA (and BMW Germany) and failed to get a solution out of them, I will not fail, we will not fail. Watch this space.

A lot has been written on this subject on various forums. I had an earlier 12oo that I was not happy with, similar symptoms as experienced by Kevin. After several upgrades to the software things were not going places. BMW S A inspected the bike and said that they were not keen on stripping the motor to which I agreed. (In my opinion it was electrical) Once the bike was out of guarantee I popped into Superbike Solutions paid my money and came out smiling, smoother, ran cooler and more responsive on the throttle. The solution, fitted a Power Commander.

As I understand it  the cause of the pinking etc. is due the local fuel grade and the exhaust emmission controls in the E U whereby they run the bikes "leaner" at certain RPM.  This was clearly evident on the dyno graphs prior to installing the P. C.

Luckily we get premium fuel here in Australia!

91 octane fuel mapping is available as an option from BMW. Perhaps something to look at and you might save some money as 91 Octane fuels are cheaper. Only drawback, the bike will probably put out slightly less power.

Yup, I agree Rene, this will most likely sort the issue, however this is working around the issue, bottom line is the motorcycle is dangerous as it is, someone is going to get hurt, someone who does not have a PC or alternative device fitted. I will pursue this to the end. I will not accept this level of service from BMW, I don't care how big they are are what EU emission control standards they need to comply with, I am in South Africa, I have a motorcycle that is dangerous and I will not back down. Do not underestimate the power of social media, the man in the street is talking, this matter is getting lots of exposure, many are talking about it, many are reading this forum, and others, BMW better listen.

This was in reply to a Face Book comment that was suggesting Kevin's riding style was at fault and that he should listen to the experts that say there is nothing wrong. That comment has since been removed.

"I am familiar with the problems Kevin is having with his bike. It does not idle smoothly and, more worrying, it miss-fires during gear changes. That misfire sounds (and feels) like pre-ignition to me (and to everyone else Kevin has asked).
I agree with Kevin that this is not correct. I disagree with the 'experts' that say it is.
As for operating the machine in question I would say that Kevin is indeed an expert. He is one of the most experienced riders I have ever met. He has also owned more GSs than the majority of BMW mechanics and ridden hundreds of thousands of kilometers on them.  
To compare Kevin's experience riding the faulty machine every day with a mechanics opinion after the mechanic has ridden it round the block (you did ride it didn't you?) would be silly.
The fact that the 'expert' computer analysis is not picking this problem up does not mean that Kevin has gone mad and forgotten how to ride a bike. It means that the computer analysis is not picking up the problem! Move on. Fix it.
If this pre-ignition while blipping the throttle on a fast gear change is indeed a new BMW feature that has never before been implemented I'm quite sure it would be mentioned in the manual. It's not. It's a new bike so fix it or replace it.
If the new 1200GS is really are all installed with this 'feature' on purpose I for one won't be upgrading my 1200GSA."

This was a response I received from an extremely helpful ECU software engineer in Sweden after he saw my post on another forum. He decided to investigate. He was able to also reproduce the erratic idle condition on his 2010 GSA. He provided me with some graphs of exactly what is happening inside the engine at the time. It makes for some rather interesting analysis and discussion. I don't however know if this is what is happening when I blip the throttle and the engine stalls, it may be another issue altogether? I have asked if he is able to reproduce this as well and if so to also provide these same graphs.

These graphs were extracted from a GS-911 Emergency Diagnostic tool.

This is absolute confirmation that I have not gone mad, there is something very interesting happening and most likely with all the R1200GS motorcycles. 

The following is the description as received from f00gami.

I think you might be on to several issues at once with your bike. Some might or might not be related to the local fuel quality or possibly a bad component on your bike. What really caught my attention was the fact that your managed to reproduce the “erratic idle” behavior on multiple bikes, including the yellow 2012 loaner.

I myself own a 2010 R1200GSA which runs great and shows no signs of misfires/pinging, stalling or bad behavior when blipping the throttle. However, today I decided to subject my bike to the same procedure as you do in your youtube clips i.e. opening the throttle grip just very slightly past the point of resistance... 

The outcome was very much the same as yours; very soon the idle got erratic and the engine was close to stalling on several occasions. Once I released the throttle grip, the idle stabilized. 

Using the GS-911 I recorded some engine parameters during two cases; 1) Normal undisturbed idling and 2) Idling with throttle grip very slightly open. Please see this PDF-file for the measurement graphs.

Page 1 shows the undisturbed idle – note that all parameters are stable (except lambda voltage, which exhibits normal closed-loop behavior).

Page 2 shows what happens as the throttle grip is opened very slightly. Note that…

• Lambda voltage quickly bottoms out -> indication of a leaner mixture
• The idle stepper motors (which control the amount of air allowed to bypass the throttle plate) soon bottom out at 0.
• The throttle position sensor (TPS) constantly indicates fully closed throttle, even though applying pressure to the throttle grip surely will cause the throttle plate to open slightly.
• At t=110s, the idle steppers have bottomed out and engine speed starts fluctuating heavily – engine is close to stalling.

My conclusion is that the erratic idle issue which occurs with prolonged small throttle grip openings is caused by the idle speed control logic of BMS-K (engine control) becoming unstable. While applying pressure to the throttle grip, you are letting a bit more air into the engine. As our bikes have no Air Mass Meter, BMS-K must estimate the amount of air entering the engine from engine speed and throttle plate position (the TPS signal). However, as the TPS does not seem to register this very minute movement of the throttle plate, the system has no idea of what you are doing and cannot adjust fueling and ignition timing accordingly. Hence you have effectively created an intake air leak.

As more air enters the engine, the average idle speed starts rising ever so slowly (and the mixture goes lean). The idle steppers will react to the increase in engine speed and start compensating to bring the idle back to 1150 rpm. Once the steppers bottom out, the BMS-K regulator goes unstable.

In this respect I assume you could argue that BMW is right in saying that this is “in line with the character” of our bikes, as every DOHC R1200 will exhibit this behavior (if I’m right). However, this should not be the reason for the other issues you mention such as pinging and engine stalling during throttle blips.

On my 2001 1150GS, when I have the fast idle only very slightly open the idle is irregular.  Things improve if I completely close or open the fast idle.  The logic above makes sense - you are exploiting a small gap between the throttle opening and what the TPS can detect.  Maybe you are asking for too much?

True Charles, I honestly don't have any issue whatsoever with this symptom, it can be argued whether this is acceptable or not though, as I referred to earlier it was only last week for the first time I experienced this, ie. after 7 months of complaining to BMW, and was able to figure out how to reproduce it, I never even knew this was happening before.

My issue is, "my motorcycle stalls intermittently when I blip the throttle, such as in traffic while lane splitting and warning motorists of my presence, when I pull away from a standstill, downshifting or while I am riding technical stuff"

All I can do is provide as much information as possible that will assist to determine why this is happening, hence the fact I have reported that I am experiencing this odd behaviour when I hold the throttle just 'off idle' or the pinging/knocking (I am not sure what is happening??) when I blip the throttle as indicated in my video clips. All this may be "by design" and "not a problem". I don't know if this is at all related all I know is I still experience the ping/knock and sluggish throttle response occasionally and sometimes albeit less often a complete stall.

Kevin

Take Wayne and Chris Hamman up on their offer to go ride with you. Forget about the stall at idle, that can be replicated. Go and ride other bikes (and let them ride yours) with experienced riders like you and see what you get regarding your other issues!!

I have personally (not that I have that much experience) never experienced your "blipping" problem when changing down between gears and I always do it, in all conditions and at all speeds on all the BMW 1200's that I have ever ridden on long and short trips. I also have not experienced the stall that you experience. Yes I do stall, not too often but this is through my own stupidity/inexperience or trying to attempt something that I am not ready for.

Pinging? yes, but invariably it is because I am in the wrong gear, speed or I take a handful at the wrong revs!!! It could be a heap of other reasons but it does not phase me because as as soon as I get the gearing right no more "pings".

Although reading & re-reading your post's (and if I understand them correctly) your issue seems to be more about possible injury and or death as a result of the stall/cut out in a critical situation and not so much the other issues raised?

None of us want any more bike related injuries.

Hi Geoff, thnx for the reply. Chris has not yet had a ADV available for me to test ride, when one becomes available I will surely take Chris up on his offer. I did however ride his standard GS and found it also pinged and knocked on a throttle blip, in fact worse than mine. It did stall on me once. Note that the stall is extremely intermittent and very difficult to replicate on a quick ride, it only happens every 2 weeks or even less often.

I also rode the 2012 GSA loaner from Donford and found that also pinged and knocked when I blipped the throttle. It however did not stall on me.

Note that the "stall" I experience is never while in gear, it is ONLY when I blip the throttle, the bike is either in neutral or while the clutch is pulled. I can hear (and feel) the bike shudder every now and then when I blip the throttle, even at 120kmh, once you have felt this shudder you will know exactly what I am referring to, it is not a smooth quick increase in revs as I am used to, the engine does not respond as it should, it every now and then displays a hesitance to respond as if it is sluggish, and then sometimes you can hear the distinct 'ping' from the valves as it pre-ignites or detonates.

I never experienced the pinging like I am currently experiencing on either of my previous 12GS's. 

Yes, the issue I have is two-fold, absolutely the concern of injury due to my (or others) bikes stalling unexpectantly is my biggest concern as I have experienced a stall in 3 potentially dangerous situations already, 2 as I was about to pull away at a traffic light, blip the throttle (before I engage gear or release the clutch, I am still in neutral) and it kicked violantly and stalled as the vehicle behind me pulled away and the most recent as going around the Bothasig circle, I was in 3rd and I blipped the throttle to downshift to 2nd (yes I know I shouldnt change gears while in a circle) and it kicked and stalled, I lost balance momentarily but managed to restart and continue around the circle.

My other concern is engine damage, say what anyone says, an engine that pings and knocks is not running correctly, it is a clear indication that it is running lean or the timing is out and there is the very likelihood it will burn a piston or valves in the long term, and with my luck that will be after the 2 year warranty.

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I have kept out of this because what do I know.....however, .I have a 2011 GS and it does stall, "struggle for air" when blipping. I have mentioned this to Donfords and I will do so again as I am taking it in for its 10 000 km service in the next week or so.

Thank you for the feedback Adrian, what I wanted to accomplish with going public on this issue is dialog, exactly what is happening, I want other R1200GS owners to talk about this issue. It is most definately a topic worth talking about. Where it goes nobody knows...

I am not as young as most of you guys but have ridden a fair amound of bikes in my life, from 2 cylinder 2 stroke to multi cylinder 4 stroke engines. Road and off road bikes and surely not all BMW's

Back in the days when i was young and the guys had to set carburator's when servising your bike it was a habit to run the engine warm at collection and give the trottle a quick blip. If the bike did not stall imidiatly but climbed in revolutions you just switched of and gave it back. You knew then he did not tune it correcly. Its still a test i do today!